<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Jan 6, 2006, at =
12:47 PM, David Andersen wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN =
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white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><FONT =
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0px; =
font-family: Verdana; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" =
style="font-family: Verdana; ">Hey, Bill---to me, pitch shimming is =
synonymous with cracking a unison: making micro-incremental pitch =
shifts in a 3 string note; =
<BR></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Agreed. Same process =
whether fine or coarse. I've just never used it during the temperament. =
It's always been much more suited for interval tuning (say, laying out =
the octaves once the temperament is done), because there the task is =
much simpler. There's a note whose turn it is to be tuned, and a note =
(or notes) already tuned to get the pitch of the new note.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Temperament is a different =
kettle of fish, because although the chromatic steps in the temperament =
compass are being tuned serially, the judgement as to the success of the =
temperament doesn't come until all notes in the temperament are in =
place.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Yeah, =
I know. You can make a very good case that laying out the rest of the =
keyboard by octaves needs the "gestalt", the overall ensemble of notes =
just as much as the central temperament. But the extent to which that =
case is real-world instead of academic is not that great. What I mean by =
that is you can go a lot farther in octave tuning where each new note is =
based on only one already tuned note, than you can in temperament =
tuning.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Which =
is why, unless the piano is being tuned a couple of times a week, when =
it comes temperament time, I use a temperament strip. Above the =
temperament, it's single mute tuning. And it could be down in the bass =
just as easily, I just have yet to try it.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Your article and this =
thread tell me it's time to toss the strip away. (On a piano that's =
already nearly in tune, at least.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN=
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normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
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white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><FONT =
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0px; =
font-family: Verdana; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" =
style="font-family: Verdana; ">I think experienced tuners start doing =
it unconsciously at some point, but it never really blossomed for me as =
a foundational tuning tool until I threw my felt strip away and started =
tuning unisons fully on the fly---open-string =
tuning.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I'd still expect to hear of more =
people doing it. Like hundreds. So far it's Virgil, you and =
me.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Now,=
5 years later, I literally sculpt and balance the temperament by very =
fast and precise shimming of the unisons---<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>After five years, your an old =
hand at it. The other thing which bothers me about muteless temperament =
tuning, the other difference between temperament and octave tuning is =
that, in temperament tuning, setting the new note maybe based on an =
interval which isn't necessarily being brought to pure (say a P12 or a =
6:3 octave) but an interval which will have a beat rate (say adjusting =
the new note so its 5:4 beat rate as part of M3d is adjusted from x.5 =
bps to y bps). The arithmetic behind shimming is based on erasing a beat =
rate entirely. To move from x.5 to y, the shimming has to equal x.5-y, =
and nothing in entire x.5 of y will tell you what x.5-y =
is.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><BR=
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Of course it's by the seat =
of the pants, right-brained, intuitively, as is alot of high end piano =
work. And its time for me to toss my strip away.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">BTW, David, I like your =
description of sculpting a temperament very much, like kneading together =
a landscape in clay.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" =
face="Verdana"><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Cheers.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT=
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><BR =
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Bill =
Ballard RPT</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NH Chapter, P.T.G.</DIV><DIV =
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"Talking =
about music is like dancing about architecture"</DIV><DIV =
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "> ...........Steve Martin</DIV><DIV =
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">+++++++++++++++++++++</DIV><DIV><FONT =
class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><BR></FONT><BR></DIV><DIV><BR =
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