<HTML>In a message dated 12/16/2001 6:23:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Bridging the cap?/ Restoration feasibility Date:12/16/2001 6:23:09 AM Pacific Standard Time From:    mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com (Farrell) Sender:    owner-pianotech@ptg.org Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:    pianotech@ptg.org Hi Dale. A couple questions. Do you mind sharing what the total bill for the upright was? (Did it get new board and action?)</BLOCKQUOTE>    Hi Terry-- WhenI stated full belly package it means board,block,bridges(caps) stringing,some scale changes where required. The back post system was coming apart and the case sides were loose but they needed to come off to do the belly work. This part is not much fun as the two layers of glue joint veneer attaching  the case side to back assembly were in poor condition and had to be reveneered (two layers) before it could be succesfully be reattached to the back again. Is that clear? also beefed up the cutoff blocks. I mean every thing was coming apart    The original action parts were in good enough shape to retain and refurbish.  The keys and new Ivory alone which were made by Rick Wheeler (Best keys I've seen in any piano) :  my cost  was $5,300.00( $3,7500.00 for the ivory & balance for the key sticks plus shipping) <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Did you do the new ivory? The reason I ask is that you, as is commonly done, elude to "the realities as to worth and investment....", suggesting that the work may not make financial sense (I understand your stand on the owner's right to make these decisions). A big tall Yamaha (U3 or UX3) costs around $10,000 to $12,000 and the big Steinways, M&H, Bechsteins, etc. cost well over $20,000 new. </BLOCKQUOTE> < One of my points is that a decision like this is not about financial sense which is as foriegn to you as it is to me but hey. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I suspect your client ended up with a new 1905 ornate upright. Does it work and sound as well as these other pianos? My point here, obviously, is that many techs will say it is not worth putting $12,000 to make granny's old upright like new - yet a new Yamaha is "worth" $12,000.</BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><Again it depends on how and who is ascribing the value</BLOCKQUOTE> <   Yes a virtually new piano. The action was very light and lively. The new rib crowned board is way more powerful than the original. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I've heard from some others that they "completely rebuild" uprights for around $7,5000 (new board, action, refinish, etc.). I can't see how they can do it for so cheap. I think one could do it for $12,000 </BLOCKQUOTE> <It's all relative to labor rate which can vary greatly from region to region. < I can't do it that cheap either nor could I and stay in business at that rate. I think one thing that many overlook is the cost of mataining a full blown rebuilding business  is a considerable  investment both capital and personal. Shops equipment and expertise all come with a high price tag just like any other business.  < As to cost It always depends on how extensive the repairs are and if every stinking tiny last detail is a pain. This one had a silent practice feature, honky tonk rail  and the worst designed pedal system ever. All these were time consuming. OK. I'm putting a new action and damper system in an old upright right now - I wish I <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">had kept track of the hours I have spent on it - there is a lot of time-consuming work to make all work just perfectly. I'm charging way too little, I fear (incl. hammers, butts, key bushings and fully rebuilt damper system -- all springs, etc.) - I should have charged much more.</BLOCKQUOTE>  <Yeah but think of the invaluable experience you getting which helps you trouble shoot more efficiently in the future. The abilty to asses a job is one of the greatest skills/assets you can develop.   < As to the final cost I won't answer that directly as I would not want the client to log on and be un happy as to the discussion of cost but I can state indirectly most rebuilds of this caliber can easily have 300 hrs. or more. Times whatever your hourly rate plus parts and moving. A first rate finish is 80 to 100 hrs.Plus in this case the top,inner case sides and one outer case side plus bench top all were newly veneered. Complete belly work a 100 or more and the action 100 ish. Please take these as ball parks. My  rule of thumb is that the rougher the pianos starting condition the more things will go end up being repaired and the hours will go up.  <An interesting less expensive fix for these pianos can often be had by recrowning the existing board  which can only happen under certain circumstances. More on that later if you wish. < Hope that helps. The job went home sat. sigh <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Just curious for another angle on some of this stuff?  </BLOCKQUOTE> < We need all the angles we can get!!!!!! <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Terry Farrell <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">----- Original </BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>