<HTML>In a message dated 9/22/2002 12:38:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Franz Mohrs Credibility, was ETDS Date:9/22/2002 12:38:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time From:<A HREF="mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no">Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no</A> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet              Richard,Terry and list</BLOCKQUOTE>                       I consider Franz  Mohr  a warm  personal acquaintance, a gentleman, sincere Christian and fine tuner tech. To say he's colorful and opinionated would be to describe many of us as well.      Concerning his opinion on etds I think if the true crux of the matter is known that in the purist sense machines don't tune pianos people do and our ears are the final judge and more discerning than any machine. I would venture to say Franz might acquiesce to this position. For me though the machine has great value           Thirty years ago my Dad taught me to tune by ear. I was a strict aural tuner for 12 years. When I was introduced to ETD's I was dumfounded and impressed by their accuracy. ETD's aid to prevent aural fatigue and offer a wonderful tool to the tuner.      And here's my however, I over rule it aurally on every tuning in usually small degrees and sometime larger. Oh it's an acutuner of the latest vintage. I've heard more about other Etd's but I'll bet the overruling by the ear goes on there as well.                 I think that for me the experience of becoming a solid, stable, completely by ear tuner prior to employing the "aid" of an ETD  was a far greater benifit in my case ,and many I suspect, than having the use of an ETD first. People tend to become more dependent on there machines and less on there ears and I'm guessing this could be part of Franz' argument as well BUT I'm not speaking for him. This is my biased opinion alone.     Terry only described what he heard and I didn't think he meant it to discount Franz but was obviously taken a back and perhaps a wee bit defensive as I was the first I heard this comment. I will say he's definitely  not an ETD fan for some of the reasons  stated above.      Ric by the way we used a steinway B as  a tuning est piano for 8 years successfully at Cal State Sac.          >>>>Regards --Dale Erwin <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Farrell wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yes, I know well Mr. Mohr's relationship with Horowitz. Did I discount the fellow? I most certainly did not intend to. I simply pointed out that he appeared a little behind the times regarding current electronic equipment available for the trade. This seemed rather obvious to me. I can easily understand one's preference to not use an ETD. "The purist" - cool deal. And one might even go a step further to argue that aural-only tuning is better. But to suggest that fine tunings cannot be had from a skilled piano technician using an ETD......well, I'll skip the colorful adjectives........ is quite simply incorrect. Terry Farrell </BLOCKQUOTE> Well Terry, though in principle I agree with your closing statement, I think you have to remember that Franz was primarily a Steinway tuner. You know... Steinways... those pianos that have such lousy scales that even the PTG wont use one for an exam ??? "Lousy scale" essentially  being defined in this context as being "a scale that an ETD cannot reliably and accurately project onto a SAT or RCT type tuning curve". And therein perhaps lies his experience and stubbornness on the issue. He perhaps has actually heard time and time again less then judicious ETD users attempt to force such a curve on such and instrument without due prejudice by the ear to correct for the disparages inherent. So.... "incorrect</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>