<HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o == "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w == "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 == "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;= charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400"= name=GENERATOR><o:SmartTagType= namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"= name="State"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType= namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"= name="City"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType= namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"= name="place"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE>st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <STYLE>  </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV align=left>Obviously, he's= using a pitch fork/aural, which is a good thing for a beginning= tuner.  An ETD would have given him an exact measurement of= the general tuning of the piano.   I feel and ETD is a= necessary piece of equipment in the tuners kit.   Doug= could have quickly brought the piano up to pitch and then tuned= as best he can aurally.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>David I.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>----- Original message= ----------------------------------------> From: Terry= <<A= href="mailto:terry@farrellpiano.com">terry@farrellpiano.com</A>&= gt; To: Pianotech <<A= href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>> Rec= eived: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:49:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Help with= "bad" tuning...need help</DIV> <DIV align=left> Hi Doug,= </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So please give us some= details......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"It was not that out= of tune, A440 sounded like it was between g-sharp and a, but= not an entire half/step= off." <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial">  <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Was that before you= tuned it? Or after? How are you tuning - aurally, ETD? Could you= not measure pitch fairly precisely? Did you do a separate pitch= raise before tuning? What methodology did you= use? <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial">  <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Terry= Farrell</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;= MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:= 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----= </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:= black">From: <A title=pianotuner@frontiernet.net= href="mailto:pianotuner@frontiernet.net">Doug Renz Piano= Tuning</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A= title=pianotech@ptg.org= href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, December 13,= 2004 8:51 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Help with "bad"= tuning...need help</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As a new piano= tuner, I am learning a lot as I go and tune= different<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">piano’s and= typically I am tuning the older piano’s and some= new/better<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ones.  This= past Sat. I tuned a piano for a home that had a= console<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">that had never been= tuned ‘in a long time’. I warned them that I= might<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">break strings and= that it will go out of tune quickly because of the= condition<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">of the strings and= the piano itself. Well I was called back= by<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">the customer saying= ‘the piano is still out of tune and you must= not<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">have checked it= before you left’.  Before I left I told him, ‘your= piano<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">is most likely going= to go flat somewhat because it has not been= tuned<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">at all in such a= long time (20+ yrs) and that it should tuned every 6 months.= The<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">piano was old and= recently had some action work, but the strings= looked<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">old and dirty. = I was careful not to break any strings and when I left it= sounded<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">good and the funny= thing was the customer said it sounded good after I= finished.<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It was not that out= of tune, A440 sounded like it was between g-sharp and a,= but<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">not an entire= half/step off.<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial"><o:p> </o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So, what do I do= now? Has anyone been in my shoes before? Go back= and<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">do a ‘free’ fix it= up tuning, or tell him, he has to pay for a 2nd= tuning. Is this<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">going to risk my= reputation? He had the action done by another local PTG= member<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">and I am afraid that= if I don’t go back and ‘fix’ this, I am going to get= that<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">reputation and the= other PTG member might tell others about the ‘part time’= tooner,<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">which I do not want= to be and this is why I joined the PTG, to get better.= Any<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">thoughts on this= would be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial"><o:p> </o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I thought the tuning= was good, inspite of the condition of the piano and the= strings.<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It sounded alot= better, but I knew it was going to need another tuning= soon.<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial"><o:p> </o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Any advice,= thoughts?<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial"><o:p> </o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:= Arial">Thanks.<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Doug= Renz<o:p></o:p> <SPAN= style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Associate PTG= member, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City= w:st="on">Rochester</st1:City>, <st1:State= w:st="on">NY</st1:State></st1:place><o:p></o:p></P= ></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>