<HTML>In a message dated 9/16/02 7:49:41 PM Central Daylight Time, kswafford@earthlink.net writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm looking forward to seeing these figures. I have long thought that the problem with developing these figures has been the irregularity of lower partials about which Ron K is reminding us. </BLOCKQUOTE> Thank you very much for your interest.  As much as I know about the practical matter of tuning, I know absolutely nothing about how to do this.  I have seen Owen Jorgensen do it many times.  To me, it looked like he had this secret formula.  He could do it quite quickly too.  When I asked him once to explain itto me, he just looked at me and grinned. I think I will send him the aural instructions as they are currently but not yet changed on my website.  Note that this is not a change in the temperament itself, just the order of the notes tuned.  This order was suggested in feedback from people who have actually learned to tune it and don't subscribe to Pianotech. The only changes which have ever been made are simply which intervals to specify and how in order to create the basic idea.  Originally, the A3-E4 5th was given a specification.  But that was discontinued because I felt it would have been far more subjective and subject to error than a specification for a 3rd.  It was feedback from a few users who noticed that the F3-A3 3rd usually ended up at the same rate as the C4-E4 & G3-B3 3rds and the G3-E4 6th that gave me the idea I could create those intervals first and have the A3-A4 5th occur as a consequence but still end up the same.  So, in that sense, it was simply a change in order of tuning the notes, not in the temperament itself. The EBVT has never substantially changed the way some have suggested.  Even the option that I have said exists, as it does in some other historically documented temperaments, to alter the speed of the initial Rapidly Beating Intervals, is not mentioned yet in my bearing plan nor on my website.  First things first. Here is the bearing plan as I simplified it for my apprentice.  I can't throw too much at one time to him, so the specification for a 6:3 A4-A3 octave is simplified.  I also took out the Tempered Octaves idea.  That will come later for him but it also can't be done with current ETD programs, as far as I know.  Again, first things first. Instructions for Tuning the Equal Beating Victorian Temperament (EBVT) 1.  Tune A4 to A-440 pitch source or tune to a pitch you can manage. 2.  Tune A3 to A4, making it sound as a pure octave except that you will want to flatten A3 just until you would start to hear a beat occur, then stop. 3.  Temper F3 from A3, a wide 3rd, estimating it to beat at 6 per second,   just slightly slower than it would be in Equal Temperament (ET).  Use your          metronome set at 120 and hear 3 beats per tick. 4.  Tune F4 a pure sounding octave from F3.  Don't try to stretch this one, just make it sound pure.  Notice that C4 and F4 now make a pure 4th. 5.  Tune Bb3(A#3) a pure 5th from F4.  Notice that F3 and Bb3 make a pure 4th.  Play F3-Bb3-C4-F4 all together.  There should be a very still sound, no beating. 6.  Temper E4 a wide 3rd from C4, making it also beat at 6 per second, the same as the first F3-A3 3rd. (About half the speed of the same interval in ET.) 6.  Temper G3 from E4, a wide Major 6th so that it beats exactly the same as the F3-A3 and C4-E4 3rds. (6 beats per second). This will make the G3-C4 4th be tempered a little more than in ET. 7.Temper B3 from G3, a wide Major 3rd so that it beats exactly the same as the F3-A3, C4-E4 and G3-B3 3rds and the G3-E4 6th. (Exactly 6 beats per second).  Now, the F3-D4 6th will also beat rapidly but a little faster than the previous series of Rapidly Beating Intervals (RBI). It will probably beat at 8 beats per second. 8.  Temper D4 from both G3 and A3 so that both the G3-D4 5th and the A3-D4 4th beat at exactly the same mild rate. (Each one just slightly more tempered than in ET).  If you have trouble finding the right spot, tune either interval pure first.  The other will beat strongly.  Temper so that the two have the same, lilting sound. 11. Listen to the resultant 3rd, Bb3(A#3)-D4. Temper C#4 from A3, a wide 3rd, so that the A3-C#4 3rd beats exactly the same as the Bb3(A#3)-D43rd. This will probably be about 9 beats per second, about the same as in ET. 12. Tune F#3 a pure 5th from C#4. 13. Tune G#3 a pure 4th from C#4. 14. Temper D#4 from both G#3 and A#3 so that both the G#3-D#4 5th and the A#3-D#4 4th beat exactly the same as each other (slightly less tempered than in ET or nearly pure). If you have trouble finding the right spot, tune either interval pure first.  The other will beat more noticeably. Temper so that the two have the same, lilting sound. 15.  Tune your octaves up and down by making what sound like a pure octaves except that going up, you will want to sharpen each note just until you would start to hear a beat occur, then stop.  In the very highest part, sharpen until the octave sounds sweet to your ear.  Going down, do a mirror image of how you went up. *************************************************************** I, myself would like to see what the projected figures for the E3-G#3, F#-A# and Ab3-C4 intervals would be.  These often end up Equal Beating for me, enough so that I think I may end up specifying that and have good reason to.  After thinking about this and confirming what I thought, I decided to call Owen Jorgensen and ask him if it was legitimate.  He not only said yes but indicated that this was one of the higher refinements in temperament construction, a step beyond the theoretically correct. In other words, if the EBVT stands the tests of harmonic balance analysis, even if it only meets the constraints of the Modified Meantone group of temperaments, according to Jorgensen, that is a different but closely parallel group of temperaments in which these imbalance issues are not necessarily issues at all.  It has precedence and is authentic, according to Jorgensen. So, if things do check out as I expect they will, I would have grounds upon which to say that yes, the Moore and the Broadwood are good, mild temperaments which make the piano have a certain, appealing character.  Many have found it to their liking,  the same with the Coleman 11 and others of his.  But the EBVT belongs to a class of more highly refined temperament tuning, the kind which can also and should be, in the opinions of both Jorgensen and myself, be done accurately by ear, the Equal Beating Temperaments. Think about the position in the scale of the following intervals: B2-D#2  Db3-F3  E3-G#4  F#3-G#3  Ab3-C4  B3-D#4  Db4-F4 I can usually get the first 5 to beat all the same, also the last 2 beat the same but faster than the first 5.  Now, to all beat exactly the same, the first 5 intervals could never have exactly the same, numeric size.  It actually makes sense and *requires* the E3-G#3 3rd to be the largest numerical interval, just as it was so often coming up in these analyses. Yes, because of these very close and exacting relationships, there is little room for error but some for options.  An audible and improper imbalance can easily be created when making a few small but cumulative errors, the same way unintended effects can be created when trying to tune Equal Temperament. "Sideways Well":  the pit Ed Foote dug for himself to wallow in the day he knowingly published false data for the EBVT on Pianotech. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin <A HREF="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =-</A> </HTML>