<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE>BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 15px; COLOR: #993300; = FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff background=cid:024522022@08032005-1fe0> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005>For Bach specifically, the = Werckmeister is widely used, although there are a few other contenders. Go to my website = <A href="http://rollingball.com/TemperamentsFrames.htm">http://rollingball= .com/TemperamentsFrames.htm</A> to see a lot of graphs representing the range of thirds and fifths in each = of the temperaments. Bradley Lehman more recently offers one on his website, <A = href="http://www.larips.com/">http://www.larips.com/</A><SPAN class=024522022-08032005> </SPAN>, using the following offsets = which he deduces from Bach's markings on the Anna Magdalena = manuscript:<BR></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005>Eb 3.9<BR>Bb 3.9<BR>F 7.8<BR>C = 5.9<BR>G 3.9<BR>D 2.0<BR>A 0.0<BR>E -2.0<BR>B 0.0<BR>F# 2.0<BR>C# 3.9<BR>G# 3.9 </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005>Note, however, these offsets are = all sharp except E, so this will put a lot of additional tension on the = piano. To equalize the tension, try: </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005>Eb +1<BR>Bb +1<BR>F +4.9<BR>C = +3<BR>G +1<BR>D -0.9<BR>A -2.9<BR>E -4.9<BR>B -2.9<BR>F# -0.9<BR>C# +1<BR>G# +1<BR></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005>Also be aware that a temperament = cannot really be reduced to cents, which are approximations at best. The = historic temperaments were usually set by measures like "set this third as sharp = as the ear can bear" - or in some cases certain fifths were tuned perfect while = others were tuned "as flat as the ear can bear". </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=024522022-08032005> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>| |   | | |   | = |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jason Kanter . piano tuning regulation repair</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="mailto:jkanter@rollingball.com">jkanter@rollingball.com</A> . = cell 425 830 1561</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>serving the eastside and the = san juans</FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>On = Behalf Of </B>Michael Gamble<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> jonathan stuchell<BR><B>Cc:</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: historical temperaments<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>Hello Jonathan</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>First - how much time have you got? There's = a lot of information out there about "temperaments". This type of tuning is = used mainly on historic type instruments: real square pianos (circa late 1700s) Harpsichords and Fortepianos. The temperament we use at Glyndebourne = is Vallotti. In fact I have to tune a Kawai grand to this temperament to = use <EM>with</EM> a Harpsichord in rehearsal for Bill Christie. The = variation from equal temperament is as follows:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000> a:0   a#:+6.0  = b:+2.0  c:+6.0  c#:0.0  d:+2.0  d#:+4.0  e:-2.0  = f:+8.0  f#:-2:0  g:+4.0  g#:+2.0</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>The "wildest" off pitch temperament is "Werkmeister-III" where:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>a:0  a#:+17.5  b:-7.0  = c:+10.5  c#:-13.5  d:+2.5  d#:+20.5  e:-3.5  f:+13.5  f#:-10.0  g:+7.0  g#:-17.0</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>Lambert(1774) is closest to equal = temp.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>I shall stop there and put on my flame suit = for <EM>daring</EM> to suggest anything so OT as = "temperaments"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>Regards from darkest Sussex</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000>Michael G.(UK)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jstuchell@verizon.net = href="mailto:jstuchell@verizon.net">jonathan stuchell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk href="mailto:michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk">Michael Gamble</A> = </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 08, 2005 = 4:48 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> historical = temperament</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>  Hello,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>        I = want to start using historical temperaments.  How do I go about = this?  I use a Peterson virtual strobe tuner which has settings for Young,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Werkmeister, Kirnberger, Pythagorean, = Kellner etc.  I would like to use one from J.S. Bach's time.  = Information seems hard to find.  Im very interested, because I favor the = Baroque period.  Also, Baroque instruments are becoming popular.  Hope you can give me some = advice!    </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>       = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>   Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Jonathan Stuchell   </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>