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<DIV>Terry,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That's me...defying physics for 28 years...I rarely
break strings also...;-] I don't get that much drop in pitch...EVER!
Of course I may be favoring the pitch to the sharp side as I'm going a
long...slight roll to the right...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David I.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********<BR><BR>On
11/7/01 at 5:46 AM Farrell wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV>It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted
pitch. Your description appears to defy laws of physics. Consider
the top two of four sections on the grand. If the whole piano was 100 cents
flat, starting at A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those notes will
be 120 or more cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and they will fall a
good 33%, or 40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. Treble now 40
cents flat. Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no overpull. Treble
will be at least another 10 cents flat by the time you get there, so it will
be 50 cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, and they will fall a good
33%, or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 cents flat after the second
pitch-raise pass.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now you start your tuning pass with the treble 17 cents flat? Tenor will
likely be in the 10-cent flat area. If, on the tuning and final pass you do
not add any overpull, you will still end up at least 3 cents flat in tenor and
somewhere between 5 and 10 cents flat in treble. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have yet to see a piano that varies significantly from the above
description. Am I missing something?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"......am I concerned about the quality or stability of the
tuning?"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hmmmmm. Why do you not use any overpull to get the piano to pitch?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry Farrell</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David
Ilvedson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Oops?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am in the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at all...If -100
cents, I take a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch then bring
each string up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to C8...if the tenor
isn't as flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get raised any higher than
any other part of the piano. So when I go through it a second time it
is about 10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really care where...the piano
decides that but it isn't anywhere near 30 cents flat!) and I go through it
again to pitch. The bass is now reasonably stable and a quick 3rd
time through the tenor/treble and I'm done with the initial tuning...see ya
in 3 to 6 months...am I concerned about the quality or stability of the
tuning? I don't think so...I didn't let it go for 15 years...it's not
my problem...I don't use a temp strip, just mutes and tuning unisons as I
go...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David I.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR
***********<BR><BR>On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM Billbrpt@AOL.COM
wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM
Central Standard Time, davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) writes:
<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style of
tuning are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get the
treble sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if
you are using standard stretching. I recall that you mentioned
that in your tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you
get to C8. Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to
reach only +40. For your system that would require additional
stretch going up. For others, they would end up considerably sharp
of the target and have to do a lowering before a fine
tuning.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000
size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time
I use a more conventional amount of stretch. The triple
octave/double octave and fifth comparison is only for when I wan the
absolute maximum and justifiable amount. <BR><BR>Once I get into
the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off. But let's take a
piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange. That's 100%. Very
often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch. The high treble may
easily be 150% flat. Now add 30 cents for the high treble for the
usual amount of stretch. We're up to 180% now, which theoretically
would take +60 cents overpull. Yipes! <BR><BR>Maybe on a new or
newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to work my way up. The
danger of breaking a string or splitting the bridge on the poor old Betsy
Ross is simply too great. Add to that the kind of test blows needed
to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' those elbows or breaking the
keys themselves at the balance rail. <BR><BR>It all adds up to a claim
that I would really like to see substantiated: a 100% pitch raise in
2 passes that comes out "dead on". I'm not from Missouri but *show
me* anyway. <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Bill Bremmer RPT <BR>Madison, Wisconsin</FONT><FONT
size=2 Arial></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2
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