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Hello Barbara,<br>
Some comments interposed.<br>
<br>
Barbara Richmond wrote:<br>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Robin,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Do you think if I did some tests on
pieces of bushing cloth, I'd be able to tell anything? <br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
To test the method with methyl alcohol you could try it with an
old flange and bushing if you have one lying around, which you
probably do. This will probably show whether the two will work
together or not. Tomorrow, I'll try it here in my shop and report back
to. I very much doubt there could be any problem using the three
ingredients together but I am no chemist either. I do know, though,
one should avoid breathing fumes from any of the three where possible.
<br>
Using it on bushing cloth could only show whether the mixture was
compatible with the alcohol. I don't see how it would indicate much
otherwise so why not use a real bushing which is in place and much more
true to the situation one is trying to test. <br>
<br>
<font face="Arial" size="2"> I was thinking in particular about the
90/10 acetone/ CA mix and also trying out some with a bit of methyl
alcohol mixed in, too. Does anybody know if I'll blow up or pass out
or anything? (That last one is the important one, I'm not a chemist.)</font>
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cite="mid004801c4de6e$647efff0$4ec99e04@richmond2zrxmt">
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I repinned some again yesterday,
following very precise directions by folks who should know. <br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
I use similar methods in pining and did with the Tokiwa flanges;
they were inadequate due to the excessive softness of the bushing cloth
which had been used to bush the set. I had little expectation these
suggestions would help here. They are predicated on acceptably
densified, or adequately hard bushing. Possibly by taking the pin
size up to 25 you could get come stability for a longer while, but
this, again, is probably only going to be short lived. <br>
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cite="mid004801c4de6e$647efff0$4ec99e04@richmond2zrxmt">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> I was more aggressive in my
burnishing and working the flanges and just generally pinning tighter,
but by this morning, they had loosened some (I measured each step using
my gram gauge). The flanges went from too tight before working the
flange, to the high end of being acceptable after working the
flange. This morning they were at the low end of acceptable--which is
OK as long as they stay there, but I have a funny feeling they won't
stay there for long. <br>
</font></div>
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They are very unlikely to stay there long at all. Again, the
problem that I see, judging from your description is likely do to an
overly soft bushing cloth have been used. They may well, actually,
have been sized at the factory but this effort has not densified the
bushing sufficiently, which was probably too soft to begin with. The
use of water again, may render them acceptable, although I doubt this
will occur.<br>
In my opinion, it is necessary to do something due to the overly
soft cloth, which is similar to what one does when rebushing keys, that
is, through a similar process to the glue-sizing done when replacing
key bushings which allows the glue in that case to wick into the felt
and size them to a certain dimension. While we are not actually trying
to size the bushing, I think to a certain dimension, we are trying to
increase its functionaly density which impregnating the felt matrix
with a very thin deposit of plastic does, I believe. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid004801c4de6e$647efff0$4ec99e04@richmond2zrxmt">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"> After this test of my pinning
technique, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I'm not totally
incompetent after all----maybe just partially.... :</font><font
face="Arial" size="2">-) </font></div>
<div> </div>
</blockquote>
I don't think your technique is at all in question, rather, it is
just another case of technical inadequacy on the part of the supplier,
of which there continue to be an abundance of instances. In my
opinion, when buying parts from any supplier, who represent themselves
as having a professional level of competence, much less the elevated,
somewhat pretentious claims of this particular one, technicians should
at the very least receive a professionally adequate product. Sadly,
with this company, and numerous others this is frequently not the
case. And this, notwithstanding the tremendous, dominating
understanding and superiority in all matters technical it once readily
displayed. <br>
Regards, Robin Hufford <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid004801c4de6e$647efff0$4ec99e04@richmond2zrxmt">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Barbara Richmond</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote dir="ltr"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="hufford1@airmail.net" href="mailto:hufford1@airmail.net">Robin
Hufford</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, December 06, 2004 1:31 AM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: Rebushing centers</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Hello Barbara,<br>
I think it is vital to properly shrink and stabilize the bushings
after installation. Otherwise, you will be where you are now with the
inadequate Steinway parts (something ridiculous and telling in itself
for a company in business doing this for 150 years,) you refer to in
recent posts, that is, the friction will not be stable and the hammer
will also wobble causing a loss of power. <br>
I have used shrinking fluid combinations with proportions ranging
from 50/50 to 75/25 or so, water and methyl alcohol and had good
results. Although, I have had, on occasion, a need to do some over, as
some were still, after drying, loose. These were then rendered
acceptable after another treatment. <br>
An interesting new possibility, which had occurred to me one day
as I was waiting for a conventionally treated set to dry and is, as far
as I can tell, a completely new technique since I have not seen it
referred to anywhere or heard any discussion about it elsewhere, I
decided to try on a set of Tokiwa shanks which had a very soft,
unstable bushing that responded to pining exactly as you describe with
the Steinway, is, perhaps, better. <br>
This method uses water thin CA glue thinned even further to
about about a 90/10 acetone/glue mix. It occurs to me now, as I write
this, that it may work better if a little methyl alcohol is added as a
wetting agent, if possible, although I haven't done this. There may be
complications if alcohol is used which I am unaware of at the moment. <br>
As you know, of course, the CA rapidly sets and this
characteristic obviates the need for the prolonged drying necessary
when using water. One can vary the mixture as desired to control its
effects, but if too much CA is used it will make the bushing so hard
that it will click and this defeats the purpose of its use. Too
little and there is not enough stability induced in the bushing. <br>
On the piano I tried this on I have had very good results; the
pining is stable and there was a noticeable increase in power. I tried
at first to apply it simply by dripping the mixture onto the bushing:
this does have an effect, but, eventually, I removed the pining, wetted
the bushing and then reinstalled a pin. Perhaps, as I indicated
above, a wetting agent like methyl alcohol will make it possible to do
this without even removing the pining. All of the flanges on this
piano had already been repinned, some twice or even three times. They
had progressively loosened as you described earlier. <br>
Judging from your recent posts you are considering rebushing the
inadequate Steinway shanks you have referred to. I would try this
technique before rebushing were this problem one I had to solve. I
think, once resigned to rebushing, you have nothing to lose. <br>
Regards, Robin Hufford <br>
<br>
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