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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wow, interesting. I have studied and =
played
classical guitar for over 35 years -- never even thought about tuning =
the guitar
any differently than I learned way back when. And I'm a piano
tech!?!?!?!?!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm going to have a little fun =
experimenting with
your ideas and will report back in a few days ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Alan R. Barnard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Salem, MO</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Billbrpt@AOL.COM =
href="mailto:Billbrpt@AOL.COM">Billbrpt@AOL.COM</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> ; <A
title=macman@pathfinder.dnsalias.com
=
href="mailto:macman@pathfinder.dnsalias.com">macman@pathfinder.dnsalias=
.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=tuning@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com">tuning@yahoogroups.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 21, 2002 =
5:31 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Guitar Tuning for Man =
of La
Mancha</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>List, =
<BR><BR>Once
again, as I expected would be inevitable, I had to intervene in the =
production
of Man of La Mancha by our local theater company for the tuning of the =
on
stage guitar. The company simply could not find a guitarist =
willing to
attend all of the rehearsals and do everything else that is required.
One of the youngest singers and actors has a guitar however, and =
is
learning to play it. He offered to do what he can. <BR><BR>He =
has an
electronic tuner for it and a clamp on capo bar. The first few =
times he
played, I just listened to whatever sound he was getting. He =
really is
only playing during 2 numbers, the opening Flamenco style chant (some =
chords
in Bb minor) and for the song, "Little Bird, Little Bird" in which I =
am the
principal vocalist. He really is exposed in this number, however =
because
he will be the only instrumentalist heard. There will be no =
other
orchestra accompaniment. Naturally, I have a vested interest in =
what
kind of sound will be my accompaniment. <BR><BR>The G major chord he =
plays for
the Little Bird song sounded pretty sour to me, even more than Equal
Temperament is supposed to be. I told him I knew of a special =
way to
tune that would make it sound much sweeter. He agreed to have me =
help
him tune it for the next rehearsal. I brought in my Sanderson =
Accu-Tuner
in which I had set up the Vallotti style Well Tempered Tuning for =
guitar that
I had designed under very similar circumstances 10 years ago. =
<BR><BR>I got
the very same reaction I have witnessed every single time I have done =
this:
the jaw drops, the eyes open wide in amazement at the beautiful =
sound of
the harmony produced by tuning the guitar this way. I then had =
him clamp
on the capo bar and play the Bb minor chord that goes with the =
Flamenco style
chant: another look of amazement at the beautifully clear but =
dark and
disturbing sound of the minor chord in 5 flats in a true, Well =
Tempered
Tuning. The F Major dominant chord of that key also sounds =
beautifully
clear and true. <BR><BR>Now, I have written about this before and had =
any
number of people, all guitarists of high degrees of skill tell me =
rather
specifically and often quite harshly that this *cannot* be done!
Needless to say, I have heard much the same kinds of hard headed =
opinions about the way I tune the piano but obviously, I have never =
believed
in what anyone told me, I have only believed in what I hear as the =
results of
my work. <BR><BR>Below are the actual figures programed into my =
Accu-Tuner.
They may not look "right" to you. But ask yourself, has =
any set of
figures for tuning the piano, regardless of temperament ever looked =
"right" or
logical? They don't because of the omnipotent presence of the =
factor
known as Inharmonicity. All of these values are read on Octave =
4.
That means that the lowest two strings are read on the 4th =
partial, the
middle three on the 2nd partial and the highest on its fundamental.
<BR><BR>When Inharmonicity is taken into account, it skews everything, =
making
the numbers appear irrational. These figures were arrived at =
however, by
aural tuning first, then reading the results with the Accu-Tuner. =
The
figures were rounded off to convenient whole numbers, much the way I =
round of
my figures to the nearest 1/2 cent when creating a piano tuning =
program.
The figures can also be halved which creates a "Victorianized" =
version
of the same idea. <BR><BR><U>IMPORTANT: All Values are Read on =
Octave 4
<BR><BR>Note Vallotti Victorian =
<BR><BR></U>E2
-4.0
-2.0 <BR><BR>A2
0.0
0.0 =
<BR><BR>D3
2.0
1.0 =
<BR><BR>G3
4.0
2.0 =
<BR><BR>B3
-2.0
-1.0 <BR><BR>E4
0.0
0.0 =
<BR><BR><BR>My piano
technology apprentice, Tyler Smith has been to a rehearsal of the show =
and
heard how the piano tuned in Equal Beating Victorian Temperament =
(EBVT)
(click on the link to my website for information on that) and saw how =
the
guitar was tuned. Although he is only 18 years old, he is quite =
well
read and knowledgeable in many subjects. He was born in 1984 but =
he has
read George Orwell's novel by that same name as well as other books by =
the
same author. <BR><BR>I found it interesting that he knows that author =
and
interprets the stories much the same way I do. The Guild of American =
Luthiers
has a web page which explains its views on how a guitar should be =
tuned.
My comment about that writing is that it looks like George =
Orwell
himself had written it. It basically says that you cannot do =
what I have
done, don't even think about it. Just do what Big Brother tells =
you is
right and eventually, you'll learn to like it. <BR><BR>Here is the =
link to
that web page: =
<BR><BR>http://w3.ime.net/~cygnus/equal_temperament.html
<BR><BR>The web page is really meant to instruct guitarists on how not =
to make
the same basic errors that piano technicians are prone to making by =
tuning
4ths & 5ths too purely. If the open strings of the guitar =
are tuned
to pure 4ths (and the A2-E4 octave and 5th made pure), the 3rd, G3-B3 =
and the
6th, D3-B3 will be far too wide, having a "sour" sound to them and =
effectively
be Pythagorean 3rds (22 cents wide). The web page teaches the =
guitar
tuner not to tune the intervals so purely but it also says that there =
is no
other alternative. <BR><BR>All I do with both of my above arrangements =
is
simply temper the 4ths & 5ths a little more. The Valotti =
style
temperament has the 4ths and 5ths tempered exactly twice as much as =
Equal
Temperament. I have learned over the years to question and prove =
wrong
such iron fisted statements as are made in the Luthiers Guild web =
page.
<BR><BR>There has been much the same kind of teaching about piano =
tuning for
the last hundred years but more and more, people are beginning to =
realize that
there really are some alternatives to Equal Temperament which can and =
do work
really well with all of the kinds of music the piano is expected to =
play.
I see no reason this can't be so with the guitar as well. =
I did
once see a guitarist of the highest caliber from New York who took a =
lot of
time on stage carefully tuning his guitar in exactly the same way as I =
describe below. <BR><BR>Here are the aural tuning instructions for
accomplishing the Vallotti style Well Tempered Tuning on a six string =
guitar.
<BR><BR>1. Tune A2 to A-440 fork or other aural pitch source. =
<BR><BR>2.
Tune E4 from A2 a pure octave and 5th first, then flatten E2 =
until the
Octave and 5th has a lilting beat to it, about 1 beat per second. =
<BR><BR>3.
Tune E2 from A4 a pure 4th first, then flatten E2 until the 4th =
beats at
2 beats per second. This should create a slightly stretched =
double
octave from E2-E4. The double octave should have a very slow, =
roll to it
of about 1/2 beat per second. <BR><BR>4. Tune D3 from A2 a pure =
4th
first, then sharpen D3 until the 4th beats at 2 beats per second. =
<BR><BR>5.
Tune G3 from D3 a pure 4th first, then sharpen G3 until the 4th =
beats at
2 beats per second. <BR><BR>6. Tune B3 from E4 a pure 4th first, =
then
flatten B3 until the 4th beats at 2 betas per second. <BR><BR>The =
results of
this should be that the 3rd, G3-B3 and the 6th, D3-B3 now also beat at =
the
same slow, 2 beat per second rate. When all of the 4ths and the =
3rd an
6th all beat at the same slow, gentle rate, the tuning is =
accomplished.
<BR><BR>Bill Bremmer RPT <BR>Madison, Wisconsin <BR><A
href="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b =
r e m m e r
. c o m =-</A> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>