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<DIV>Oops, sorry. I see the confusion now. My post was in response =
to the
post of <A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net
href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David Ilvedson</A>.</DIV>
<DIV> <SPAN id=__#Ath#SignaturePos__></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry Farrell</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fish@communique.net =
href="mailto:fish@communique.net">Warren
Fisher</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 07, =
2001 8:37
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Oops?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Terry,
<P>Who was this addressed to?
<P>Warren
<P>Farrell wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE">
<STYLE></STYLE>
It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted pitch. =
Your
description appears to defy laws of physics. Consider the top two of =
four
sections on the grand. If the whole piano was 100 cents flat, =
starting at
A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those notes will be 120 =
or more
cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and they will fall a good =
33%, or
40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. Treble now 40 cents =
flat.
Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no overpull. Treble will =
be at
least another 10 cents flat by the time you get there, so it will be =
50
cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, and they will fall a =
good 33%,
or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 cents flat after the second
pitch-raise pass. Now you start your tuning pass with the =
treble 17
cents flat? Tenor will likely be in the 10-cent flat area. If, on =
the tuning
and final pass you do not add any overpull, you will still end up at =
least 3
cents flat in tenor and somewhere between 5 and 10 cents flat in
treble. I have yet to see a piano that varies significantly =
from the
above description. Am I missing something? "......am I =
concerned about
the quality or stability of the tuning?" Hmmmmm. Why do you not =
use any
overpull to get the piano to pitch? Terry Farrell ----- =
Original
Message -----
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net =
href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David
Ilvedson</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 06, =
2001 1:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
Oops?</DIV> I am in
the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at all...If -100 =
cents, I take
a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch then bring =
each string
up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to C8...if the tenor =
isn't as
flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get raised any higher =
than any
other part of the piano. So when I go through it a second =
time it is
about 10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really care where...the piano =
decides
that but it isn't anywhere near 30 cents flat!) and I go through =
it again
to pitch. The bass is now reasonably stable and a quick 3rd =
time
through the tenor/treble and I'm done with the initial =
tuning...see ya in
3 to 6 months...am I concerned about the quality or stability of =
the
tuning? I don't think so...I didn't let it go for 15 =
years...it's
not my problem...I don't use a temp strip, just mutes and tuning =
unisons
as I go... David I. <FONT face=Arial><FONT =
size=-1>***********
REPLY SEPARATOR ***********</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM =
Billbrpt@AOL.COM
wrote:</FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid"><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=-1>In a message dated =
11/5/01 6:16:31 PM
Central Standard Time, davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David =
Love)
writes:</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=-1>Also, =
so that
those who are not familiar with your style of tuning are not =
mislead,
the standard pitch raise function should get the treble sharp =
enough
if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if you are =
using
standard stretching. I recall that you mentioned that in =
your
tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get =
to
C8. Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to =
reach
only +40. For your system that would require additional =
stretch
going up. For others, they would end up considerably =
sharp of
the target and have to do a lowering before a fine
tuning.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=+0>Yes, =
but bear in
mind that most of the time I use a more conventional amount of
stretch. The triple octave/double octave and fifth =
comparison is
only for when I wan the absolute maximum and justifiable
amount.</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=+0>Once =
I get into
the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off. But =
let's take
a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange. That's =
100%.
Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch. The =
high
treble may easily be 150% flat. Now add 30 cents for the =
high
treble for the usual amount of stretch. We're up to 180% =
now,
which theoretically would take +60 cents overpull.
Yipes!</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><FONT =
size=+0>Maybe on a new or
newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to work my way =
up.
The danger of breaking a string or splitting the bridge on the =
poor old
Betsy Ross is simply too great. Add to that the kind of =
test blows
needed to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' those elbows =
or
breaking the keys themselves at the balance =
rail.</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=+0>It =
all adds up to
a claim that I would really like to see substantiated: a =
100%
pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on". I'm not =
from
Missouri but *show me* anyway.</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=-1>Bill =
Bremmer
RPT</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial><FONT =
color=#000000><FONT
size=-1>Madison,
=
Wisconsin</FONT></FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
<P>-- <BR>Warren Fisher RPT <BR>fish@Communique.net <BR>1422 Briarwood =
Dr.
<BR>Slidell, LA 70458-3102 <BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>