<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; = charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style>  </style> </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>With a .55 key ratio you definitely = need a 17 mm knuckle, probably an 18 mm but they don’t make them.  Ideal  situation would be if the action would accommodate a capstan = move to .52  with a knuckle at 17 mm.  Variations in the leading = and balance weight with a non conforming SW curve accounts for the range of = BWs through the action.  Friction range is too great.  Check the = key easing on the high ones and remeasure balance weights to see if = that’s the problem.  Remeasure the bore distance (string height to flange = center) and see if the hammers are bored correctly.  Improper checking might be = due to improper tailing or incorrect backcheck angle.  </span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best fix:  </span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p> <ol start=1 type=1> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Remeasure hammer bore = dimension and either replace the hammers or, after removing from original = shanks,  plug and redrill if they are wrong (a little tricky when they are = already tailed, but can be done. (4 hours)</span></font></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Dry fit onto new 17 mm = shanks and smooth strike weights using a table saw for clean = tapering.  Retail to correct radius.  With .55 key ratio you will need SWs on = the lighter side.  Do some samples and determine if your curve = will allow you to move the FWs back down below maximums.  If you are = unable to get the hammers light enough to bring the BWs down with reasonable = FWs, experiment with a capstan move to .52 or as far as you can without = going off the cushion.  Double check your new BW/FW relationship = with some samples. (4-8 hours)</span></font></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Install new hammers. = (3 hours)</span></font></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bench regulate and = address friction areas checking keys and pinning.  Include check of = backcheck angle and/or new leather. (4-6 hours).</span></font></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Reweigh action by = charting BW for each note and then remove lead at 1:1 ratio (1 gram off FW reduces = BW by 1 gram) to achieve desired BW.  (4 hours)</span></font></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Take to customer and = do final reglation, tuning and voicing in piano. (4 = hours)</span></font></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy'><font size=2 color=navy = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Give bill (estimate 22 = – 28 hours plus pick up and delivery, plus shanks, plus new capstans = if needed—add 3 hours and a new set of hammers if new hammers = are in order) collect money go home and drink beer.  Your mileage may = vary.</span></font></li> </ol> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p> <div> <p><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span = style='font-size:10.0pt; color:navy'>David Love<br> </span></font><font size=2 color=navy><span = style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>davidlovepianos@comcast.net</span><= /font><font size=2 color=navy><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> = </span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original = Message-----<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> = pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b><span = style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b></span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span = style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Farrell</span></font><font size=2 = face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August = 04, 2005 4:52 PM<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> pianotech@ptg.org<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Action = Balancing/Leverage Quagmire</span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello Action Balancing = Aficionados,</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Today I spent a good part = of the day with Phil Bondi (who is currently dodging thunderstorms along southbound = I-75) diagnosing an 1880s S&S model A 85-note action that plays like a = Mack truck.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Because two heads are = better than one, and as we found out, they are likely better by an exponential = function, we have at least four times as many unanswered questions as either one of = us could have come up with working alone!</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We actually did improve one = thing right off. The drop screws were turned WAY down to make the pathetically = hung crap hammers check - sort of. They were so far down that the rep levers = were being depressed at less than half blow. We turned them up and that made = quite a difference right away. But still, the action was = sluggish.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We measured upweight (UW), downweight (DW), key ratio (KR), strike weight (SW), wippen = weight (WW), knuckle-to-center distance (KC) and front = weight (FW) on all the Cs and C#s. Our objective is to characterize what changes can be = made to this action to make for a normal to light touchweight. All results = discussed herein are in grams and millimeters.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We also examined magic = lines and did the measurements to calculate overall action ration as specified by Ron = Overs.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The action had shanks with knuckles 15.7 mm away from the flange center pin (is that the right distance Phil?). And it had five leads in the bass keys and two in the = trebles.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The capstan/wip-heel = actually intersected the magic line just after key travel started (not too = horribly bad). The knuckle/rep-lever interface started at a full knuckle below = the line and ended with the line about half-way across the knuckle at full key depression (pretty bad).</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>For anyone interested in a = painful experience, I will send you my spreadsheet with all the data upon = request. For those others more sensible, but still reading this, I will summarize = below:</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>DW ranged from 49 to 63. UW = ranged from 18 to 28, friction (F) ranged from 12 to 19.5 balance weight (BW) = ranged from 34 to 45.5, </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What would make the BW so inconsistent?</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>FWs are from at Stanwood's = Front Weight Ceilings to about 4g over, KR is .55 for naturals and .53 for = sharps, average WW is 16.5, SW ranged from heavy-medium in the treble to = just into the light zone in the bass, action ratio (R) ranged from 6.7 to 7.5 and averaged 7.1.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Clearly, the leverage of = this action is horrible - too high. We experimented with a 17mm and 16.5mm knuckle-to-centerpin distance knuckles/shanks. They seemed to function = very well - you could regulate the notes quite well (we tried the 17mm on one = note and the 16.5 on four notes). However, the improved leverage dropped all = the DWs to around 41 and all the UW to about 16 or 18g. </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Looking for a bit of input = here - this is too light, yes? Too light DW and the low UW will produce poor repetition, yes? </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Friction on the high = friction notes dropped to 12 or so and BW dropped to 28 to 30. Calculated R goes from = and average of 7.1 to 6.2 with the 16.5mm knuckles - likely down to about = 6.0 with the 17mm knuckles.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Using the Overs action = ratio method (we did not do actual measurements with the 16.5mm knuckles) I estimate = that the knuckle change would drop the action ratio down from the original = average of 6.4 to 5.9</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>BUT, these keys have a = whole bunch of lead in them. We are thinking that, at a minimum, this action needs = the knuckles placed out at 17mm from the flange center pins to improve = leverage. Then, that will allow one or two leads to be removed from each key - = remove enough lead to make the DWs in the 50 gram range and the upweights will = gain a similar amount - around 10 grams or so and end up with about 27g = UW.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ultimately, I = think, this piano needs a complete releading (setting gradational FWs) new hammers, = shanks, knuckles and flanges and gradational SWs (on some nice SW = curve).</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Don't know exactly what the = piano owner will be willing to do - apparently it is a not-so-well-to-do = church. Phil has the action at this point to evaluate it.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Anyone care to comment on = our thinking here? Neither one of us are experienced with this balancing methodology = enough to decide exactly what to do on our own. And we recognize that maybe we = need to do a bunch more measuring also. But we have a start. </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We'll be very interested in = input. Thanks.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 = face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Terry = Farrell</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 = face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(I wonder if Phil managed = to drive the 135 miles home in the time I took me to write this = email?)   :-(</span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html>