<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>BTW: What is a wippen saddle cushion? = Is that a different term for the heel cushion?<BR>Yes, same thing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tom Servinsky</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">Farrell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 05, 2005 = 6:38 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Action = Balancing/Leverage Quagmire</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Tom. Thanks for your input. = Comments below:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Tom Servinsky wrote:</EM></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Are these original parts, except = for the hammers? </EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>No. Newish (few years old) hammers, shanks, knuckles, flanges, wippens.</DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Original keybushings with well = worn key pin grooves. </EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Yes.</DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Original wippens with excessive = saddle/ capstan grooves?</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>New.</DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Pinning?</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>If anything much of it is loose - what we looked at - didn't = fully evaluate.</DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Verdi Gris?</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>No.</DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Too many times action geometry = concerns are confused with the basics. Excessive friction from the keybushings/ = keypin relationship can affect the outcome dramatically.  My advise = before any drilling and leading is considered would be to thoroughly lubricate = all contact points...keypins, capstan, knuckles, jack tops, and even the keybushings and wippen saddle cushions.</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>I assure you that your findings = will change dramatically.</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Incidentally, a tip that I picked = up from my last Steinway factory seminar was centered around this issue. The = techs are now lubricating the keybushing felt and wippen saddle cushions with = Protek Pro Lube, in addition to lubricating the keypins and capstans.  The differences in release are outstanding.</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Remember: measure twice cut once!</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>No doubt, friction is an issue with this action, but the keys are = relatively free and many notes have normal friction. On the few high = friction notes we put the long-distance knuckles on, friction came right down = to 12 grams or so. So yes, friction needs to be addressed on this action = because it is erratic, but with five leads in the keys, FWs that exceed the = Stanwood ceilings, and an action ratio upwards of 7, it seems clear this action = needs a bit more than friction management.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks though. Some good point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW: What is a wippen saddle cushion? Is that a different term = for the heel cushion?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Terry Farrell</DIV></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello Action Balancing Aficionados,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Today I spent a good part of the = day with Phil Bondi (who is currently dodging thunderstorms along = southbound I-75) diagnosing an 1880s S&S model A 85-note action that plays like = a Mack truck.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Because two heads are better than = one, and as we found out, they are likely better by an exponential function, = we have at least four times as many unanswered questions as either one of = us could have come up with working alone!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We actually did improve one thing = right off. The drop screws were turned WAY down to make the pathetically hung = crap hammers check - sort of. They were so far down that the rep levers = were being depressed at less than half blow. We turned them up and that = made quite a difference right away. But still, the action was sluggish.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We measured upweight (UW), = downweight (DW), key ratio (KR), strike weight (SW), wippen weight = (WW), knuckle-to-center distance (KC) and front = weight (FW) on all the Cs and C#s. Our objective is to characterize what changes = can be made to this action to make for a normal to light touchweight. All = results discussed herein are in grams and millimeters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We also examined magic lines and = did the measurements to calculate overall action ration as specified by = Ron Overs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The action had shanks with = knuckles 15.7 mm away from the flange center pin (is that the right distance = Phil?). And it had five leads in the bass keys and two in the = trebles.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The capstan/wip-heel actually = intersected the magic line just after key travel started (not too horribly bad). = The knuckle/rep-lever interface started at a full knuckle below the = line and ended with the line about half-way across the knuckle at full key depression (pretty bad).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For anyone interested in a = painful experience, I will send you my spreadsheet with all the data upon = request. For those others more sensible, but still reading this, I will = summarize below:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>DW ranged from 49 to 63. UW = ranged from 18 to 28, friction (F) ranged from 12 to 19.5 balance weight (BW) ranged = from 34 to 45.5, </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What would make the BW so inconsistent?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>FWs are from at Stanwood's Front = Weight Ceilings to about 4g over, KR is .55 for naturals and .53 for = sharps, average WW is 16.5, SW ranged from heavy-medium in the = treble to just into the light zone in the bass, action ratio (R) ranged from 6.7 = to 7.5 and averaged 7.1.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Clearly, the leverage of this = action is horrible - too high. We experimented with a 17mm and 16.5mm knuckle-to-centerpin distance knuckles/shanks. They seemed to = function very well - you could regulate the notes quite well (we tried the = 17mm on one note and the 16.5 on four notes). However, the improved = leverage dropped all the DWs to around 41 and all the UW to about 16 or = 18g. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Looking for a bit of input here - = this is too light, yes? Too light DW and the low UW will produce poor = repetition, yes? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Friction on the high friction = notes dropped to 12 or so and BW dropped to 28 to 30. Calculated R goes from and = average of 7.1 to 6.2 with the 16.5mm knuckles - likely down to about 6.0 = with the 17mm knuckles.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Using the Overs action ratio = method (we did not do actual measurements with the 16.5mm knuckles) I estimate = that the knuckle change would drop the action ratio down from the original = average of 6.4 to 5.9</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>BUT, these keys have a whole = bunch of lead in them. We are thinking that, at a minimum, this action needs the = knuckles placed out at 17mm from the flange center pins to improve = leverage. Then, that will allow one or two leads to be removed from each key - = remove enough lead to make the DWs in the 50 gram range and the upweights = will gain a similar amount - around 10 grams or so and end up with = about 27g UW.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ultimately, I think, this = piano needs a complete releading (setting gradational FWs) new hammers, shanks, = knuckles and flanges and gradational SWs (on some nice SW = curve).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don't know exactly what the piano = owner will be willing to do - apparently it is a not-so-well-to-do church. = Phil has the action at this point to evaluate it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyone care to comment on our = thinking here? Neither one of us are experienced with this balancing methodology = enough to decide exactly what to do on our own. And we recognize that = maybe we need to do a bunch more measuring also. But we have a start. = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We'll be very interested in = input. Thanks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(I wonder if Phil managed to = drive the 135 miles home in the time I took me to write this email?)   = = :-(</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>