<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; =
charset=US-ASCII">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =
FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"
bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 =
rightMargin=7>
<DIV><SPAN class=906200923-22052005>Exactly. Like your disclaimer
states, the job of opening up a hard drive is not for a novice. =
Like the
small print in TV car commercials says: trained driver on a closed =
track. Don't
try this at home. Thanks for your follow-up.</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr =
align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On =
Behalf Of
</B>Sarah Fox<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:47 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Pianotech<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: WAIT! NO! - RE: When your day goes in =
the
toilet<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Geoff,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your luck has apparently been worse =
than
mine. ;-) Yes, when water with any ionic content hits a =
board, you
have gizillions of tiny "soft" shorts, as you suggest, and that's =
usually
enough to thoroughly confuse any logic circuitry. However, if =
there
aren't any static sensitive circuits mixed in with high voltage =
circuits, the
device will usually only experience "brain drain" and won't get
zapped.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>About the hard drive, I remember the =
bad ol' days
of hard drives -- back in the MFM and RLL days (Might Function =
Minimally
and Run Life Limited). I often received a desperate phone call =
from a
fellow grad student, wanting me to render aid after a hard drive =
crash.
I would always tell the person to shut down the hard drive RIGHT NOW =
and not
to run it again until I could get there. The drive would =
frequently be
making dragging and scraping noises. Even so, I could still =
recover a
large chunk of the data. The drive was only good for perhaps an =
hour or
so of runtime after making noise, and the failure was =
progressive. I
would always autopsy the hard drive afterwards and find tons of debris =
in
it. Modern hard drives don't crash quite so brilliantly as the =
old ones,
but I remember recently replacing a 30GB drive in a friends =
laptop.
There was not data loss, but the drive was definitely making noise, =
hence my
recommendation to back up the data NOW and to order in a replacement
drive. She used the drive for another couple of days while the =
new drive
was on order. It never went "down" but continued to make =
dragging noises
(perhaps from a munched head on an unused platter).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The lesson from all of this is that a =
hard drive
can indeed run with dust, debris, etc. inside. In fact there is =
an
internal filter that catches debris as it is generated during =
deterioration of
the internal works. However, when debris is afoot, the =
drive's life
expectancy is VERY limited. I'm not saying that there =
should ever
be any reason to break the seal on a hard drive. But just the =
same, if
it's necessary, it can be done. Just not for long -- just long =
enough to
pull off the data.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Having said this, my suggestion was =
merely to
bleed distilled water in and out of the hard drive through the =
filtered
ventillation port to rinse out the fluids from the inside. I =
know this
sounds awful, but the water can all be boiled off at room temperature =
in a
complete vacuum. There are lots of people with vacuum pumps, =
including
automotive air conditioning service companies and high school physics
teachers. ;-) Alternatively, take the top off of the =
platter
housing, rinse, and dry. Then run the thing open, long enough to =
recover
all the data. Believe it or not, I've run dying hard =
drives
open before, just to see them work. They could function that =
way.
This would probably be the approach I'd take if my HD took a dunk in =
the
toilet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But then again, THESE THINGS SHOULD =
ONLY BE DONE
BY QUALIFIED, PROFESSIONAL DATA RECOVERY PERSONNEL!!! (My
disclaimer.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ivories.52@earthlink.net
href="mailto:ivories.52@earthlink.net">Geoff Sykes</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 21, 2005 =
1:48
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> WAIT! NO! - RE: When =
your day
goes in the toilet</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>When you get an electronic =
device wet,
for whatever reason, and it was turned on at the time, you will be =
lucky if
it lives at all. Almost all liquids hold dissolved solids likes =
salts and
minerals and a whole bunch of other stuff that is usually =
conductive. A wet
device usually dies when power is applied to components that have =
contacts
shorted out with these dissolved conductive solids. What happens is =
the
contacts short out and delicate components go "paff", kablooie. If =
this were
to happen to your TV you would get sparks, smoke and =
possibly
fire. On a cell phone, a PDA or a laptop it's just quietly =
dead.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>So, on most devices, =
<U>without hard
drives</U>, that were not turned on at the time of their dunking, =
the first
thing you DON'T want to do is turn it on. What you do want to do is =
quickly
remove the battery, open up the device, (carefully), and rinse =
it out
in DISTILLED water. Make sure it is ABSOLUTELY DRY, (give it a =
couple of
days), before you replace the battery and turn it on again.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>Now - regarding hard drives.
<STRONG>DON'T EVER BREAK THE SEAL!</STRONG> =
<STRONG><U>EVER!</U></STRONG>
They're sealed for a reason. Hard drives are assembled in a "clean"
environment and any teensy tiny invisible speck of microscopic dust =
that
gets into one will destroy the platter, and your =
data, guaranteed. The
magnetic pickups inside a hard disk drive don't actually touch the =
platter
but actually ride on an extremely thin wave of air that is created =
by the
spinning of the disk itself. Should anything bigger than a =
molecule or
so get trapped between the pickup head and the platter it =
is going
to act like sandpaper and score the platter making your data =
absolutely
irretrievable. Once again, <STRONG>DO NOT EVER BREAK THE SEAL ON A =
HARD
DRIVE! </STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN =
class=484091405-21052005><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>Instead, as a protective =
measure, back
up your data frequently. And, should you ever find yourself with a
non-functional drive that contains data that you absolutely can't =
live
without, find a company that specializes in data retrieval. They can =
retrieve data from almost anything. The good ones can probably even =
retrieve
data from a hard drive that's been opened. But they're not cheap.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>-- Geoff Sykes</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005>Assoc. LA Chapter</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484091405-21052005></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr =
align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On =
Behalf
Of </B>Sarah Fox<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, 2005 4:25
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: When your day =
goes in
the toilet<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>PS I even resurrected a laptop =
computer that
had a glass of wine spilled into it (the computer I'm using =
now).
However, if anything liquid gets into a hard drive (which =
fortunately it
didn't), the hard drive would need to be replaced....
unless..... to rescue your data, at least...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(1) Put the hard drive into a =
container of
distilled water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(2) Slowly pull a partial vacuum =
on the hard
drive to draw out the air inside, and sloooowly release the =
vacuum.
(The water will flow into the hard drive through the filtered vent =
hole.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(3) Shake water around inside the =
hard
drive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(4) Remove from the water and =
slooooowly pull
a vacuum again, which will cause the water to come back =
out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(5) Repeat a few =
times </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(6) Vacuum out the water, and =
draw a hard,
prolonged vacuum to completely evacuate all remaining =
water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(7) Pray to the computer =
gods.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(8) Reinstall and power =
up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(9) Pull your data off of the =
hard drive and
load it onto a replacement. Why? The internal debris =
would
have been scattered from the filter, so the hard drive's life =
expectancy
might not be so good.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(10) Send me an email to tell me =
if it
worked. :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sarah@graphic-fusion.com
href="mailto:sarah@graphic-fusion.com">Sarah Fox</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, =
2005 7:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: When your =
day goes in
the toilet</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi James,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For your Nokia and anybody =
else's
near-flush experience, take heart that most electronic devices =
CAN be
brought back to life if you do it the right way: (1) =
Remove
batteries. (2) Submerse in a container of distilled =
water.
(3) Open the case to expose the insides. (4) Flush with a =
couple
more fresh rinses of distilled water. (5) Blow out =
the excess
water and let dry (*thoroughly*). (6) Reassemble and power =
up. (Why is distilled water different from tap =
water? It
doesn't have any salts in it and therefore doesn't conduct
electricity.) I had done this several times throughout the =
years
and then ran into some guy who was an electronics technician for =
the
Navy. He had used the exact same method on a daily =
basis (and
with great success) on equipment that got dunked in =
seawater.
;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sarah</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pianoman@accessus.net
href="mailto:pianoman@accessus.net">James Grebe</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, =
2005 7:34
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: When your =
day goes
in the toilet</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Maybe your pocket PC came =
back, but cell
phones do not after being dunked in the toilet. I had =
that
experience and when the battery gets wet if has a dye that =
shows it
has been wet on the battery and it is NOT covered under =
warranty and
the cell phone was unfixable. I had to go back to my old =
cell
phone because the new one, though only 1 month old it had to =
be
replaced and they could not fix it. I did not have replacement =
insurance. I used to have a Motorola pager and it went =
through
the washing machine but after 1 day of drying out it did come
back. Praise be to Motorola and not Nokia.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>James Grebe<BR>Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair<BR>Creator =
of
Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups, piano benches, writing
instruments<BR>(314) 608-4137<BR><A
=
href="http://www.JamesGrebe.com">WWW.JamesGrebe.com</A><BR>1526
Raspberry Lane<BR>Arnold, MO 63010<BR>BECOME WHAT YOU =
BELIEVE!<BR><A
=
href="mailto:pianoman@accessus.net">pianoman@accessus.net</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Piannaman@aol.com
href="mailto:Piannaman@aol.com">Piannaman@aol.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May =
19, 2005
11:32 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> When your =
day goes in
the toilet</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Verdana =
color=#000000
size=3>
<DIV>From the files of "Embarassing but True." If you =
can't
laugh at yourself, who CAN you laugh at?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So I finish tuning this lady's piano, and the diuretic =
effects
of the morning's coffee kick in. "M'am, may I use your =
facilities?"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Yes, no problem." She shows me to the =
door. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm wearing my shop apron. Don't know why, =
probably
because of the convenient pocket space it affords me to put =
things
like my pocket PC in(foreshadowing here...)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Business done, apron back in place--without my IPAQ, =
which has
fallen into the (fortunately freshly flushed) toilet. =
Flushed
for most of the day were appointments, Tunelab, contacts, =
and map
functions. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Things to be thankful for: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My wonderful wife, who offered me personalized GPS =
service via
my cell phone from her job at the university.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I tune mostly by ear, anyway. (4 of the five jobs =
consisted of lowering the pitch on new pianos, 2 by over 20 =
cents
each).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Since my day was so busy, I'd made out all of today's =
invoices
in advance, so at least I had everyone's address =
handy.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SD cards, which saved EVERYTHING today.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Water dries out.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Computers can come back from a dunking. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It's been a long day. Time for a glass o' =
vino.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave Stahl</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
=
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>