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<DIV>In a message dated 5/11/2004 12:15:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, Richard=
.Brekne@grieg.uib.no writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>Erwinspiano@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>> &=
nbsp; >that this rebounding ability on a high quality hammer is red=
uced by<BR>> >lacquering. <BR>><BR>> &nb=
sp; *To me This certainly seems to me to be the misinformation of this <BR>&=
gt; thread but if you wish.... If so then a hammer made with a good fe=
lt <BR>> but is not stiff enough or to springy for the tone desired then =
a 5-1 <BR>> lacquer acetone solution ,or whatever, will stiffen the felt =
& improve <BR>> its rebound rate.*<BR>><BR>> =
On the other hand, it might be possible that on a hammer with a<BR>>&nbs=
p; >bad felt quality with excessive inner friction may be st=
abilized<BR>> to a better<BR>> &=
gt;level by lacquering.<BR>><BR>> It seems logic</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> <FONT size=3><STRONG>>>> You know what the real probl=
em is here Ric .I'm attempting to explain & derive meaning fro=
m the words Bernard stated from the point of a hammer that is starting=
out to soft or loosing to much to "internal friction"(his words) which=
does mean its spring rate is tooo low. This is what he's refering to.=
Or perhaps that it doesn't have enough.Perhaps you could enlighten us.</STR=
ONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG> Whatever. The hammer is =
spending too much time on the string right?. Low rebound rate. I get it how =
bout you?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3> I also get that in your mind you don't eve=
r use lacquer on anything & your always thinking from the point of a den=
ser pressed hammer or tensioned as you say & yes i think your =
use of the word is in my opinion incorrect & mis-leading. I've explained=
that & you don't get it.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3> Be that as it may. But I'm not bein=
g defensive about the use of lacquer. I'm simply tring to explain how I thin=
k it works based on a good deal of experience.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR><BR>Grin... I dont get this at all... =
on the one hand you reject Bernards <BR>reasoning as misinformation, a=
nd then when he turns around and uses <BR>the flip side of the same lo=
gic its perfectly ok. You cant really have <BR>it both ways me thinks.=
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> <STRONG><FONT size=3>...... Me thinks Your twisting it</FONT></=
STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR>Certainly lacquer application re=
duces the rebounding ability of a high <BR>quality (tensioned) hammer. =
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> <FONT size=3><STRONG>>> He didn't use your words. For cla=
rity you mean densified hammer</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>If you read Bernards paragraph <BR>disspationa=
tly, he is only saying that internal friction plays an <BR>important r=
ole in how much energy is lost to the strings, and that <BR>lacquer will imp=
ede that internal friction. A direct consequence of <BR>reducing a ham=
mers resiliency with lacquer that I see no point in trying <BR>to deny. =
; I am sure you are not suggesting that a hammer that requires <BR>needling =
should recieve lacquer to improve its sound now are you ?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>>> Your twisting it again. Once again =
; coming from the point of a good felt but pressed to soft or to soft f=
or the tone desired, as Bernard seems to be describing &=
(I do want to try be clear). If the hammers too soft =
I want it to be stiffened to increase the rebound rate.</STRO=
NG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG> So yes if you juice the kind of den=
ser hammer you use then yes you will definitely reduce it's resiliency.=
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3> If were talking lacquer=
, in my mind it for the most part excludes using it on the type of hammer y=
our fond of. OK</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3> Try seeing things from the point of view I=
'm describing it'll make it easier</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial><BR>Neither that lacquer is for hammers of <=
;<bad felt quality>> only ? Of <BR>course not.<BR><BR>The only poin=
t one can make here is to require Bernard to more closely <BR>specifiy what =
he means by <<high quality felt>> as relating to <BR>hamme=
rs. Obviously he is talking tensioned hammers,</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>>>Its Not obvious. & tensio=
n means compression. If you can keep saying it wrong so can I.</STRONG></FON=
T></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>and not simply out <BR>of hand condemning soft=
er hammers as <<bad quality>>. And just as <BR>obviously t=
his all puts us argueing sematics again.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>>><FONT size=3><STRONG> I didn't take it as condemning. That's =
your interpetation.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3> When it's not convenient for you it's sema=
ntics. I've explained it thoroughly</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial> If that is your <BR>point Dale.... to r=
equire people to not use words like <<ruin>> or <BR><<high=
quality / bad quality>> regardless of what qualifiers are (or <=
BR>are not included) because you find the use of these words somehow <BR>off=
ensive to the discussion... then why dont you just say so ?</FONT></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<DIV>>><STRONG> <FONT size=3>What I have said is that I find your wo=
rds are at times inaccurate & I've tried to clarify why I think so.=
Talk to hammer makers about tension & compression. You obviously won't =
hear it from me.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>All I see <BR>coming clearly through is a tena=
cious need to defend the use of lacquer, <BR>in the face of a non existant a=
ttack on that process. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> <FONT size=3><STRONG>>>>>I'm tried to respond only=
to statements by you & others that I don't find to be true. Myself &=
; others have stated this voicing technique to be legitimate & frankly i=
t has a longer tradition & history than that of needling overly densifie=
d hammers which, is really a more recent modern invention & tool of pian=
o manufactures to cut voicing cost. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG> The end result however is a world f=
ull of brittle sounding pianos that all sound the same. However it=
does give the voicing techn. a lifetime of oppurtuntities to sell real hamm=
ers & or learn multiple styles of voicing techniques.</STRONG></FO=
NT><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR>> *>> May I submit that the Inn=
er friction of felt has always been a <BR>> fairly esoteric & s=
mall consideration to the discussion of hammers <BR>> even though it is a=
know factor & frankly to me personally not very <BR>> useful.*<BR><B=
R><BR>Well.... our personal feelings and thoughts dont really matter much to=
<BR>way of things. <U>The contribution of inner friction of felt to e=
nergy <BR>transfer in piano hammers is what it is for reasons that dont have=
<BR>anything to do with what we want or dont. <STRONG>Tho I dont pretend to=
know how <BR>significant a factor this is</STRONG></U>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>>> <FONT size=3><STRONG>Exactly my point Ric=
, Neither does any body else. So how useful can it be?</STRONG></FONT>.</FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial> I certainly dont have any problem=
<BR>including it into the discussion. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>>><FONT size=3><STRONG> Me either if it's us=
eful</STRONG></FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial> It seems tho.. that you wri=
te off its <BR>significance altogether... which would mean you have some kno=
wledge of <BR>this internal friction process that you can share with us in d=
efence of <BR>that claim. Which I am sure we would all benifit from.</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>. <STRONG><FONT size=3>I'd explain it but it=
might sound defensive. I've said all I need to. I'd be willing ot hear from=
others as to whether or not this discussion has any merit in going further.=
For now I've said all I need to that would be productive.</FONT></STRONG><B=
R><BR>> <FONT size=3><STRONG> Dale Erwin</STRONG></FON=
T><BR>><BR>><BR>> ><BR>>  =
; >regards,<BR>> ><BR>> &g=
t;Bernhard<BR>><BR>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
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