<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" = http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>"Oh come on...  a "world class rebuilder"  can pass the = test... sheeshh you'd think we were referring to the bar exam or something..... = "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not if he/she doesn't tune by ear. I hope to become an = excellent, very knowledgeable piano rebuilder someday, but unless I can find tons = of time somewhere along the line (and a very patient tutor), I may not ever = learn how to tune aurally (but I would like to). I'm sure there are others that = cannot tune well aurally and spend their time in the shop. I realize you and many = others may find tuning relatively easy - or at least something you can grasp onto = and study in an efficient manner. I find bridge making and soundboard replacement = and action geometry to be very friendly concepts to approach and learn. = Learning aural tuning for me is like pulling impacted molars. I have gone for = tutoring at the conventions, only to spend 75% of the session coaxing the instructor to start at some elementary level where I can even begin = to understand what they are talking about. This is very difficult material = for me and I can only assume some other people. I think I would likely do = better on a bar exam. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Secondly we are talking about full service field techs..people who = deal with all sides of basic service issues.."</DIV> <DIV> <BR>Are we? I thought we were talking about Associate members = of PTG. Not all are full service field techs. If we restrict our topic to = full service field techs, I would absolutely agree that achieving the skills necessary to pass the RPT exams should be pursued by all doing this kind = of work. (I am doing that kind of work, and I am pursuing all those = skills). Although, I do not believe one should need to achieve RPT status before = charging for his/her services.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"How would you feel if you had just paid 150 dollars to attend a = lecture from somebody, and then found out a couple days later (by what ever = fashion) the guy had absolutely no idea what he was talking about?"</DIV> <DIV><BR>I think you will find that instructors at PTG lectures are very = knowledgeable in their respective area of expertise - and do not stray = far from that area. If I went to someone's class on aural tuning techniques - I would be disappointed to learn that his/her aural tuning skills = were not up to par. But when I go to a class on soundboard design, and the = instructor knows what he/she is talking about and I don't give a hoot whether they = know how to tune a piano by ear or not. In the same way, if I go to a class on = tuning, and find that the instructor has never even notched a bridge, well = that's OK because I can learn bridge notching from others whose expertise is in = belly work. The point being that possession of all the piano technician skills = necessary to pass the RPT test, including aural tuning skills, should = not be required for a tech whose qualifications lie in only one area, perhaps = in belly work, to charge money for his/her services. I don't really see where = this issue would be a subject of debate at all. I believe there are a number of PTG = Associates that would fall into this category.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Richard, I write all the above with a constructive spirit - = just trying to discuss and understand. I trust you are there with me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Terry Farrell<BR>Piano Tuning & Service<BR>Tampa, Florida<BR><A = href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com</A></DI= V> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no" = title=rbrekne@broadpark.no>Richard Brekne</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title=pianotech@ptg.org>pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 26, 2001 = 5:55 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Associate to = associate</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>  <P>Farrell wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> <STYLE></STYLE> I've never joined in the foray on these types of topics, but I am = curious about one point: Richard, with reference to "anyone who can not pass = the RPT test has no business accepting money to work on someone's piano. = Period." Are you really saying that a world-class rebuilder that does not = tune pianos should not work on someone's piano for pay? <P>Oh come on...  a "world class rebuilder"  can pass the = test... sheeshh you'd think we were refering to the bar exam or = something..... <P>Secondly we are talking about full service field techs..people = who deal with all sides of basic service issues. <BR>  <P>I could run off a few names of very prominent and highly = respected Associate members of PTG that are very skilled at what they do and = regularly lecture at PTG Annual Conventions (because they are good!). <P>As I have said... this in no way changes the fact that if they = can not pass the test they have no buisness accepting pay for working on = pianos. There is no conflict in these two statements Terry. But to put a = point on it...grin... How would you feel if you had just payed 150 dollars to = attend a lecture from somebody, and then found out a couple days later (by = what ever fashion) the guy had absolutely no idea what he was talking = about ? <BR>  Come on Richard, broaden your horizons. I am a = licensed Professional Geologist in the state of Florida. I had to take a = day-long test to get my license. It was a good thing to do, just as I agree = with most that it is a good learning experience to get your RPT thing. Maybe I = will someday if I ever figure out how to tune by ear good enough.  <BR> Well, enough is enough. I usually enjoy your posts quite a = bit, but this one seemed to me to be a bit narrow minded. Be kind to me. = ;-) <BR>  <P>I see no need to personalize this discussion. I think it would be = best if people avoided calling each other narrow minded or suggesting they = need to broaden horizons... grin.. especially when we probably aggree = wayyyyyy more then you might at the moment think.... re-read closely what I wrote = and I think you will see I have said nothing controversial at all. <BR>  Terry Farrell <BR>Piano Tuning & Service = <BR>Tampa, Florida <BR><A = href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com</A> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no" = title=rbrekne@broadpark.no>Richard Brekne</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title=pianotech@ptg.org>pianotech@ptg.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 25, = 2001 6:15 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Associate to associate</DIV> You certainly will get a lot of  = differeing replys to this kind of posting. I encourage you regardless to = persue your RPT status. I would also simply say in the face of all the notes = that totally and out of hand simply ridicule your views... that anyone = who can not pass the RPT test has no buisness accepting money to work on = someones piano. Period. The test is simply too easy as it is. <P>I would also like to point out that if there has been too much "associate bashing" in the past... the present is beginning to = wear thin on "RPT ridiculing". The goal to attain RPT status is a fine one = and honorable one. <P>Finnally, in contrast to some of my colleagues on this list, I = find nothing about your posting that is "garbaged" or "prejudiced". You = shared your view points in a matter of factly way, and deserved to be = treated with respect in replies. We dont have to all aggree, but we can = disaggree with out being rude. <P>btw..how does one insure one knows the "tone" of an email.....shheeeshh. <BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>-- <BR>Richard Brekne <BR>RPT, N.P.T.F. <BR>Bergen, Norway = <BR><A href="mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no">mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no</A> = <BR>  </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>