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<DIV><FONT size=2>To come up with a theory and look selectively for =
evidence to
support it is hardly a scientific or logical way to approach this
argument. There are many examples of composers composing in =
their
heads and transferring their ideas to paper. To declare in no =
uncertain
terms that they must have been hearing a temperament is almost =
laughable.
Composers certainly chose keys for a variety of reasons, as sure as =
there are a
variety of composers. Some claimed that certain keys had certain =
inherent
characteristics, I know people with perfect pitch (non pianists), who =
claim
that. Chopin, on the other hand, often chose keys for almost =
purely
pianistic reasons. Remember that he started his students by =
playing in the
key of B because it more naturally fit the hand. Arguments about =
why
people didn't use certain compositional elements 300 years ago and to =
ascribe
those reasons to the characteristics of meantone temperaments fails to =
look at
the history and development of composition and what were considered =
acceptable harmonic structures in general. So many points =
have been
made in the course of this discussion that defy the basics of critical =
thinking
that it's hard to even remember them all. There is a terrific book =
by a
Barbara Tuchman called "The March of Folly". It is a book about =
how
governments pursue policies not in their own best interest. In it =
she
ascribes this tendency to something in human nature. When =
people
commit to something and discover that there commitment may not have been =
well
founded, rather than reassess the situation, they tend to commit further =
to
their folly seeking ways to justify it. I think that is what we =
have
here. Which is not to say that there isn't merit to different =
methods of
tuning. But to argue that temperament is the foundation of all =
musical
composition is, in my opinion, a march of folly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>David Love</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Billbrpt@AOL.COM =
href="mailto:Billbrpt@AOL.COM">Billbrpt@AOL.COM</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> November 02, 2001 4:59 =
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: more on this =
temperament
tangent</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a =
message dated
11/2/01 6:31:14 AM Central Standard Time, <A
href="mailto:A440A@AOL.COM">A440A@AOL.COM</A> <BR>writes: =
<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Tom Sivak writes: <BR><<The thought that composers =
compose
in temperaments is ludicrous. >> <BR><BR>(snip) To this =
end,
I would like to <BR>hear Tom's evidence that temperament =
didn't
influence composition. <BR>Regards, <BR>Ed Foote =
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I
would too. Thanks again, Ed, for answering before I had the =
chance and I
must say, much better than I could have. The final movement of =
the 9th
symphony is harmonically adventurous for its time and I have always =
thought
that perhaps the reason was because Beethoven's mind had been freed of =
conventional constraints due to his deafness. But it sure wasn't =
an
example of Atonal Adventures. Why not write all kinds of =
bizarre,
angular phrases with sharps and flats all over the place and end the =
piece
with a grandiose chord in Db instead of D if there was no influence of =
temperament? <BR><BR>In the perspective of music throughout the =
centuries, it
is distinctly tonal. The famous melody is heard all over the =
world, sung
and played by children learning music. The foundation of the =
piece is
very elementary and would have NEVER, EVER been written in a remote =
key
BECAUSE of the influence of cycle of 5ths temperament construction. =
To
think that temperament had no influence is frankly, illogical. =
<BR><BR>Let's
also consider the Emperor Piano Concerto. Wasn't he also deaf =
when he
wrote that? Now, why in the world would he have chosen the =
seemingly
illogical key of B for the middle movement when the 1st and 3rd =
movements are
in Eb? Bb would have been the Dominant key. He even had to =
use a
trick to modulate back to Eb ant the end of the second movement. =
Why go
to this kind of trouble unless there is a reason? <BR><BR>The answer =
is that
in a typical (for the period) WT, mild Meantone or Modified Meantone, =
the key
of B with its wide intervals provides for a much more melodic and =
singing tone
than would the key of Bb. Witness the broken chords à la =
Moonlight
Sonata that avoid harsh harmony by being broken against the soaring =
single
note melody played by the piano. The whole thing would have =
"fell apart"
(as Ed recently put it), it would have had a dead, uninteresting sound =
in Bb.
When played in ET, the key of B sounds virtually identical to =
Bb, just a
half step higher and not enough more intense to be a reason to =
modulate.
ET takes away some of the singing tone that the melody is =
supposed to
have. <BR><BR>The very fact that someone would think that HT's did not =
influence orchestral or keyboard writing is evidence of how ET has =
poisoned
and spoiled contemporary thinking about how music really ought to =
sound and
what the reason for choosing any particular key is. That, I =
personally
find ludicrous. <BR><BR>Bill Bremmer RPT <BR>Madison, Wisconsin</FONT> =
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