<html> Hi Antares,             &nbs= p;      I would also add that they file and shape very nicely, very easy to maintain shape. after needling. The new Knabe grands by Samick, use Renner blues, very nice open, sustaining tone once voiced.   (100% Renner action) Sound board and pin blocks by Bolduc. The bass hammers we start needling just above the staple, and walk up to about 2 o'clock. A round warm sound at ppp,  and still plenty of crack at fff. Regards Roger At 10:37 AM 9/21/02 +0200, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>And then I say (speaking from a long time experience) : Try the Renner hammers with Wurzen felt. I don't know about the 'Renner blues' made for the US market (maybe they are made with lower tension because of your (American) way with hammer dopes) but at least here in Europe the Renner hammers (with Wurzen) are the very best hammers available and you find them on Bösendorfers, Bechsteins, Steinways and  other well known piano makers. Yamaha uses Wurzen on their CFIIIS and these days even Samick in Seoul buys Wurzen felt. The Renner Wurzen hammers we use have the following characteristics : Nice, even tone from the beginning. Middle section needs some voicing and opening up (usually around 30 strokes). Lower bass hammers, usually the first octave, need battery voicing (driving up the powers from the base of the hammers). Higher treble hammers (from c''' to c'''') need battery voicing. The highest treble hammers, usually the last 5 or 6 hammers, need some dope to give them a little more 'ping'. Just yesterday, I voiced an older baby Grotrian Steinweg grand with these Renner hammers and it took me about 1 hour and 15 minutes to needle them, file them, clean them up and apply the dope. Result : A nice, warm and even sounding Grotrian Steinweg baby with a 'ping' in the high treble. By looking closely at the fibers of the Wurzen felt, and especially on the sides, we clearly see that this felt is not just a dense, stone hard, lifeless piece of felt. On the contrary, it almost seems like it was woven like a beautiful and very expensive Kashmir shawl and after hearing the result, we can understand why, in the earlier days, the great piano makers in Europe used this felt. Now that the Eastern part of Germany has been added to its former halve, the factory has opened again, continuing to make what they had to temporarily stop a long time ago. friendly greetings from Antares, Amsterdam, Holland "where music is, no harm can be" visit my website at :  <a href="http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/"= eudora="autourl">http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/</a> > From: "Joseph Garrett" <joegarrett@earthlink.net> > Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 20:11:49 -0700 > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Subject: Voicing > > I personally have had the misfortune of getting a set of "Pre-voiced" > hammers, from Steinway! When I opened the box, it wreaked of lacquer! I sent > them back and requested hammers straight out of the presses with no > "Pre-voicing" done. Which, incidentally, I was told this was "standard > procedure". To which, I replied: how the heck do you know the application of > these hammers and the acoustics of the room? > As usual, the reply was the typical "cavalier" attitude that has always been > present at Steinway. I was warned about it by my teacher and it has proven > to be a fact. > The replacements were darned near as hard as the first ones, but had not > been "Pre-voiced". I installed them on an "O". I've never had so darned much > trouble with a set of hammers. Never again!!!!! The best hammers for a > Steinway, IMHO, is anything other than theirs. > Regards, > Joe Garrett, RPT, (Oregon) > > Been There, Didn't Like It, So I'm Here To Stay! [G} > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"= eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> > _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"= eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a>= </blockquote> </html>