<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <blockquote> <pre> Andre wrote: OK bud, but then, after having tuned aurally for the greater part of my life, and, having been mauled and aurally sharpened by the Yamaha Acadamy, just like you, I have come to the humiliating but also enlightening conclusion that my ETD gives me that very same result not in two hours time, like at the Academy, but in 45 minutes (or less) every time, every day, and especially on every instrument.You know me personally, you surely would not suggest that I don't know what I am talking about? (Although, I have already learned that in this life, anything is possible). I will keep thinking, and saying, that nowadays we finally have extremely efficient ETD's.To me, an efficient ETD tells me personally about pitch, nothing else. It helps me tuning the strings at the most compromised pitch. The making of tone, is a different matter and far more important, because most people can not tell the difference whether a 5th is almost perfect, or not. Over and out. friendly greetings </pre> </blockquote> Andre ! Would I suggest you dont know what you're talking about ???? grin.. surely you jest. If there is anyone who deserves the title of Piano Guru in my book, surely you are amoung the most valued of these. Still, my own concerns hold, and do not really come in conflict with your enthusiasms for Verituner. I just find it suspect at best to assume that tuning interests are served by developing the idea that we only need the machine. That we need not  develop a musical ear for ourselves, that we need not develop an theoretical  understanding of tuning in general, that we need not put the machines solution (regardless of how good that is or isnt) into the perspective of the subjective yet learned EAR. Not having tried the Verituner myself, I of course can not speak to its pros and cons beyond the fact that I am on record for being in support of the general multipartial approach. The single partial approach does not really do it for me. I find too many examples like the one that started this thread that result from out and out reliance on single partial tuning curves.  But my point is not about whether their exists a <<good enough>> tuning machine or not. It goes to what happens when we become so reliant on them that we no longer can <<hear>> much less <<understand>> what a good tuning is anymore.   I'm all for using ETD's... but only as a supplement. Keeping the collective << tuners ear >> trained, schooled, and ready can only be a good idea as far as I can see. Cheers RicB <pre> </pre> </body> </html>