<html> <body> Hi Avery,                    S4 6'3'' S6 6.10'' Both hand crafted pianos, about twice the price of a similar sized C Series piano. The S4 is generally exceptional by any manufacturers standard. And significantly superior to any thing new that I have see from S & S. Nip and tuck to the Shigeru.   Don you are not allowed to quote me. Both Japanese manufacturers do an out standing job with price, vs quality, vs value. You gets what you pay for. Sweeping general statements, are usually ill informed statements, as is the case here. I agree with all of your comments. Regards Roger At 02:43 PM 3/5/2006, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">William, I totally agree. The only thing I don't like about the new ABS actions is that it's SO dark in there! :-) What is the Yamaha S series? Better than the C? And the Shigeru's are great! Avery At 01:07 PM 3/5/2006, you wrote: >Patrick, > >Respectfully disagree.  I find the newer Kawais, particularly the RX's to be >very nice if properly voiced and regulated from the factory.  The Shigeru's, >of which I have seen a few - very nice.  Some of the best, IMO.  Yes, with >or above the Yamaha S series. > >As for the new action parts, "black ABS" being just plain weird, someone >probably said that about the double-escapement grand action that Erard came >up with.  The action parts BTW are Carbon-impregnated ABS.  I think they are >the cat's meow.  Just my opinion.  ABS in general, is found to be stronger, >more dimensionally stable, among other things. > >Regards, >William R. Monroe > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "PIANISSIMO PIANOFORTE S.L." <patrick@pianospianissimo.com> >To: <deanmay@pianorebuilders.com>; "Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:16 PM >Subject: Kawai vs. Yamaha. was: near impossible tuning > > > > > Dale wrote:   I really like the Kawai grands in general. The tone is far > > more interesting than it other Japanese competitor & I can do wonderful > > things with the voicing . > >For me, (and i'm sure many others will agree) Kawai's are not very >consistent in tone. Some are really nice, many are not. Yamaha's arent >that consistent either, but at least the sound doesnt "distort" when >played louder. As Dale just said, with most Kawais all you get is NOISE >after a second of sustain. Even though many kawais seem like they have a >very nice tone when you first play one, it doesnt last! > > > These are pianos with original hammers that have probably never had a > > needle > > stuck in them. Is this a hammer/voicing problem? > >hmm... most yamahas ive seen havent either been neddled and they dont have >that problem > >We import many used Yamahas and Kawais, and the difference in quality is >clear, the materials and the way yamahas are made are much better by FAR. >Starting out with the casework for instance, while kawai lyres just fall >to bits even if only a few months old, i have never seen or heard of a >yamaha lyre loosen. The castors, the bolts and screws, etc, kawai ones >just scream the words "cheap n nasty", no matter how many times you do and >undo yamaha bolts/screws, they'll still keep the thread and the heads wont >become useless. On older uprights is not uncommon to see rusty colums >(legs) as they where made of metal. And on newer ones made of plastic, >they kind of bend! We have now stopped using kawais for concert hire >because of these things and of course tuning stability is far superior on >yamahas. > >Action-wise (kawai).... what's all that plastic doing there??? might be ok >when new, but when you need to replace stuff... pedal mechanisms often >make all sorts of noises... etc etc. The only thing i can think of right >now that i really like on kawai grands is the screw adjustment for the >springs on whippens, quick and delightful to regulate with those! BTW the >new black ABS plastic whippens are just weird!! > >Havent seen the Shigeru models yet, are they any better? Don't think they >can beat the Yamaha S series, can they? > >Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't get it. Most all of the Kawai grands I tune (which aren't that > > many) > > I don't really care much for. Since there aren't any new Kawais being sold > > in this area most of the ones I encounter are 10 plus years old of the KG > > variety, a couple of GS, one GS-70. I don't like the sustain. With the > > sustain pedal on when playing an arpeggio the sound quickly fades into > > white > > noise and one cannot discern what scale was just played. I've done some > > experimenting even, hitting individual notes across the scale with an f > > blow > > and I get about a second of tone before there is only noise. > > > > > > > > These are pianos with original hammers that have probably never had a > > needle > > stuck in them. Is this a hammer/voicing problem? > > > > Dean > > > > Dean May             cell 812.239.3359 > > > > PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 > > > > Terre Haute IN  47802 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On > > Behalf > > Of Erwinspiano@aol.com > > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:18 AM > > To: pianotech@ptg.org > > Subject: Re: near impossible tuning > > > > > > > >   Dittos Roger > > > >   Ed Normally I find Kawai a very stable piano.   I tuned a Kg-2 the other > > day &  I had not tuned it for 3 years.  Except for being 6 cents flat, > > enough for a pitch raise, it was in solidly in tune with itself & I > > wondered > > why I was there. It is also an easy piano to tune. > > > >    I really like the Kawai grands in general. The tone is far more > > interesting than it other Japanese competitor & I can do wonderful things > > with the voicing .  However on some of the grands & verticals a like have > > pins do not render well. > > > >   Ed I don't get it & would like to know this is only an isolated incident > > as I currently have a client looking to buy one of the same models > > > >  Dale > > > > After lifting, leveling, and fitting, the power, sustain, and  voicing > > will > > improve. > > > > String lifting is a skill just like tuning, I would hardly call it > > indiscriminate. > > > > Regards Roger > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> > > > > >Patrick Hinves Ballesta >Afinador/T�cnico 610442371 >PIANISSIMO PIANOFORTE S.L. > >_______________________________________________ >Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> _______________________________________________ Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a></blockquote> </body> </html>