<html> <body> Daniel, <x-tab>        </x-tab>If you can't find a serial number it's probably not a fantastic specimen of piano technology so apply to your hearts content. Make sure you have a great deal of ventilation! best, Greg Newell At 10:54 PM 3/7/2006, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">i'm considering using CA glue on a small Baldwin (i haven't found a serial number yet and i didn't measure the piano) but i might guess that it would be at least 50+. it was rebuilt about 30 years ago. aparently someone used pin tite or garfields or whatever on it without telling the customer. i looked at the piano for the first time last week and many of the notes were very sour. a couple of pins in the bass simply wouldn't stay put. i explained the situation to the customer. i told them they could either replace the pinblock or do a temporary fix with CA. i told them it might or might not work. they wanted to try the CA to see if it could make the piano tunable until they could save enough money for a new PB. so i was reading up on CA since this will be my first time to use it, and i ran across a message or two that advised against ever using CA on a good grand: >"Piesik, John (JPIESIK)" wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > Last month I requested info on CA glue for loose tuning pins. It's only >fair > > that I report the results, especially to those who thoughtfully >responded. > > And the results are: it worked, and it didn't work. It appears that, in >my > > opinion, CA glue can pull you out of a "slippy" situation, sometimes. A > > couple of the pins I tried it on were so loose that the CA glue was not > > effective. Thus, I muted those strings that wouldn't tune, got my client > > through her Christmas party, and recommended that the next step is a > > replacement or rebuild. > > > > Now, following are some comments, my opinions, of course, regarding this > > matter: > > > > When a piano is in need of CA glue on more than a few tuning pins, it's >in > > need of a lot more than just CA glue. I would not recommed CA gluing or > > doping an entire pinblock - I shudder at the thought - although, I know >some > > folks do, and that's fine for them. I've learned that there are many >ways to > > skin a cat in this business, but, to me, some cats are best left alone. >(In > > order to buy a little more time in an emergency, on a few pins at best, > > then, CA glue may be the ticket. And, there are other ways to solve a >loose > > tuning pin problem, too!) But, let's face it, doping an entire pinblock >is a > > bandaid fix. > > > > It's a funny thing that in the last month I've encountered two more >pianos > > (grands) that are not holding tension due to loose pins. I admit I CA >glued > > two pins on a Yamaha gray-market piano to "buy some more time", but the > > other was just too far gone. In these cases, I recommended replacement >or > > have them rebuilt (preferably with new PBs). It's apparent that I'm >running > > into increasingly more pianos with "loose pin" troubles (are you?). I >don't > > think that this is some kind of coincidence, either, and here's why. >Many > > pianos were sold to/for boomers during the 50s, 60s and 70s. The >condition > > of these pianos, coming from the historical height of US piano sales, >due to > > the pianos ages, is now starting to deteriorate (the pianos are now over >30 > > years old). I am not a rebuilder, but, I would bet dollars to donuts >that > > the piano rebuilding business is going to see a flurry of new work in >the > > very near future - if it hasn't already begun. And piano sales will >continue > > to increase with even more vigor. (I would someday like to have a shop >and > > become a rebuilder; it's very rewarding work. And, there are not enough >good > > rebuilders - there seems to be plenty of room for more. The Aerospace > > industry has a similar problem with more talent leaving or retiring and >not > > enough good talent coming in - but that's a whole other story.) > > > > Bandaids only hold for so long, then they fall off. Doping pinblocks is >a > > bandaid. Our clients, and thus the piano industry as a whole, in my >opinion, > > would benefit from either recommending a new piano or a rebuilt piano > > instead of applying a bandaid to a piano beginning its dying cough. It's >up > > to us to gently guide our clients to the right decision. The fact is, >all of > > us are going to be encountering more and more of these untunable pianos. >Do > > we squirt CA glue into them and cross our fingers, or do we recommend a >new > > purchase or a rebuild? The bandaid approach, I think, hurts everyone. >The > > later recommendation has obvious benefits for our industry, at least in >my > > mind. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Warmest Regards, > > > > John Piesik, RPT > > Piesik's Piano Service > > Oceanside, CA > > (760) 726-4665 my thought is this: i've explained the sitch to the owners, told them the good and the bad, and that CA is only a temporary fix. they decided to simply give it a try. if anyone thinks CA might not be a good idea on this particular occasion, let me know. AND another question... if i do go ahead with the job, what kind of time am i looking at/what should i charge? many thanks daniel carlton _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! <a href="http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement" eudora="autourl"> http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement</a> _______________________________________________ Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a></blockquote> <x-sigsep></x-sigsep> Greg Newell Greg's Piano Forté <a href="mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net" eudora="autourl"> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net </a><a href="http://www.gregspianoforte.com/" eudora="autourl"> www.gregspianoforte.com</a> </body> </html>