<html> <body> Alan, <x-tab>        </x-tab>To your post I have only one question. Should all pianos be saved? While it may be possible to breathe some life back into the old beast I wonder if it's prudent. We make our living stringing these things along but seldom consider that  our efforts are probably hurting new piano sales and given the myriad of problems the rest of the piano has we may not be doing our customers any favors either. I often use the analogy of a race car driver with my customers. If you wanted to learn how to drive one would you buy an old Ford Pinto to practice on? Heck, we could be running ourselves out of business! Just some late night thoughts to ponder. best, Greg At 12:00 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Someone wrote "But, let's face it, doping an entire pinblock is a bandaid fix." We keep seeing comments like that and it's a shame. I therefore respond, respectfully but forcefully, HORSEPOOP! I have now seen many pianos saved from the scrap heap and given years and years of new life thanks to CA -- sometimes applied in buckets. If you haven't tried it, don't knock it. Please don't make assumptions. Please don't stand on tradition, your high horse (see "poop" above), or anybody's conventional wisdom. Doing a restoration or rebuild? Have a customer with a decent grand and money to spend? Then by all means cut a new block. Working on an old upright? An old spinet? An old console? Grandma's old Monarch baby grand? Customer with a limited budget? Then pour in the bloody juice, stand back, be amazed, become a believer. Alan Barnard Salem, Missouri > [Original Message] > From: daniel carlton <nannermail@hotmail.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Date: 03/07/2006 9:54:40 PM > Subject: CA glue a Baldwin > > i'm considering using CA glue on a small Baldwin (i haven't found a serial > number yet and i didn't measure the piano) but i might guess that it would > be at least 50+. it was rebuilt about 30 years ago. aparently someone used > pin tite or garfields or whatever on it without telling the customer. > i looked at the piano for the first time last week and many of the notes > were very sour. a couple of pins in the bass simply wouldn't stay put. > i explained the situation to the customer. i told them they could either > replace the pinblock or do a temporary fix with CA. i told them it might or > might not work. they wanted to try the CA to see if it could make the piano > tunable until they could save enough money for a new PB. > so i was reading up on CA since this will be my first time to use it, and i > ran across a message or two that advised against ever using CA on a good > grand: > > >"Piesik, John (JPIESIK)" wrote: > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > Last month I requested info on CA glue for loose tuning pins. It's only > >fair > > > that I report the results, especially to those who thoughtfully > >responded. > > > And the results are: it worked, and it didn't work. It appears that, in > >my > > > opinion, CA glue can pull you out of a "slippy" situation, sometimes. A > > > couple of the pins I tried it on were so loose that the CA glue was not > > > effective. Thus, I muted those strings that wouldn't tune, got my client > > > through her Christmas party, and recommended that the next step is a > > > replacement or rebuild. > > > > > > Now, following are some comments, my opinions, of course, regarding this > > > matter: > > > > > > When a piano is in need of CA glue on more than a few tuning pins, it's > >in > > > need of a lot more than just CA glue. I would not recommed CA gluing or > > > doping an entire pinblock - I shudder at the thought - although, I know > >some > > > folks do, and that's fine for them. I've learned that there are many > >ways to > > > skin a cat in this business, but, to me, some cats are best left alone. > >(In > > > order to buy a little more time in an emergency, on a few pins at best, > > > then, CA glue may be the ticket. And, there are other ways to solve a > >loose > > > tuning pin problem, too!) But, let's face it, doping an entire pinblock > >is a > > > bandaid fix. > > > > > > It's a funny thing that in the last month I've encountered two more > >pianos > > > (grands) that are not holding tension due to loose pins. I admit I CA > >glued > > > two pins on a Yamaha gray-market piano to "buy some more time", but the > > > other was just too far gone. In these cases, I recommended replacement > >or > > > have them rebuilt (preferably with new PBs). It's apparent that I'm > >running > > > into increasingly more pianos with "loose pin" troubles (are you?). I > >don't > > > think that this is some kind of coincidence, either, and here's why. > >Many > > > pianos were sold to/for boomers during the 50s, 60s and 70s. The > >condition > > > of these pianos, coming from the historical height of US piano sales, > >due to > > > the pianos ages, is now starting to deteriorate (the pianos are now over > >30 > > > years old). I am not a rebuilder, but, I would bet dollars to donuts > >that > > > the piano rebuilding business is going to see a flurry of new work in > >the > > > very near future - if it hasn't already begun. And piano sales will > >continue > > > to increase with even more vigor. (I would someday like to have a shop > >and > > > become a rebuilder; it's very rewarding work. And, there are not enough > >good > > > rebuilders - there seems to be plenty of room for more. The Aerospace > > > industry has a similar problem with more talent leaving or retiring and > >not > > > enough good talent coming in - but that's a whole other story.) > > > > > > Bandaids only hold for so long, then they fall off. Doping pinblocks is > >a > > > bandaid. Our clients, and thus the piano industry as a whole, in my > >opinion, > > > would benefit from either recommending a new piano or a rebuilt piano > > > instead of applying a bandaid to a piano beginning its dying cough. It's > >up > > > to us to gently guide our clients to the right decision. The fact is, > >all of > > > us are going to be encountering more and more of these untunable pianos. > >Do > > > we squirt CA glue into them and cross our fingers, or do we recommend a > >new > > > purchase or a rebuild? The bandaid approach, I think, hurts everyone. > >The > > > later recommendation has obvious benefits for our industry, at least in > >my > > > mind. > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > Warmest Regards, > > > > > > John Piesik, RPT > > > Piesik's Piano Service > > > Oceanside, CA > > > (760) 726-4665 > > my thought is this: i've explained the sitch to the owners, told them the > good and the bad, and that CA is only a temporary fix. they decided to > simply give it a try. > > if anyone thinks CA might not be a good idea on this particular occasion, > let me know. > > AND another question... > > if i do go ahead with the job, what kind of time am i looking at/what should > i charge? > > many thanks > > daniel carlton > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! <a href="http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement" eudora="autourl"> http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement</a> > > _______________________________________________ > Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> _______________________________________________ Pianotech list info: <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" eudora="autourl"> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a></blockquote> <x-sigsep></x-sigsep> Greg Newell Greg's Piano Fort� <a href="mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net" eudora="autourl"> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net </a><a href="http://www.gregspianoforte.com/" eudora="autourl"> www.gregspianoforte.com</a> </body> </html>