<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks Alan . I m new to tuning and have a basic understanding of what is going on.I live in Tampa Fl during the Winter and Helen Ga during the summer.What ETD do you recommend,Charlie</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tune4u@earthlink.net href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">Alan Barnard</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:34 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: ohoh</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Uhhhh .... that machine is, uh, how shall I say it ... not the right tool for the task at hand and very.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean no disrespect here, but you've given us very little info about yourself: Do you understand tempered tuning? Inharmonicity? And that sort of thing? Or are you tuning, for example, A's at 27.5, 55, 110, 220, 440, 880, 1760, and 3520 Hz (for example)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try plucking C8 while playing C7, etc., without the machine. You may do better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where do you live?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alan Barnard</DIV> <DIV>Salem, MO</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Charlie Potter <CHARLES.POTTER2@VERIZON.NET><BR>Sent: Mar 12, 2006 7:46 PM <BR>To: Alan Barnard <TUNE4U@EARTHLINK.NET>, Pianotech List <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG><BR>Subject: Re: ohoh <BR><BR></DIV><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><ZZZMETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name="GENERATOR"></ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY bgColor="#ffffff"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Allen Thanks for the info. My hearing probably isnt that good anymore but I use a peterson 490st to assist my ears.I am finding it hard to use the peterson on the very low or high octave.I know the string is correct.I will try your advive Monday.Thanks again,Charlie</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tune4u@earthlink.net href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">Alan Barnard</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:31 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: ohoh</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Not without more information ... but unless the string was replaced with wire that is too heavy (can't reach pitch without breaking) then you are definitely tuning it sharp. Not just a little sharp but wayyyy sharp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you tuning by ear or with an electronic device?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do your treble octaves sound right to you up to the last one?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One "trick" to better hear treble tuning is to press the sustain pedal and slowly play a two-octave, arppegiated chord leading up to the top note of the chord--the note you are checking--but pausing a couple of seconds before playing that last note, i.e., hearing it in your mind first then sounding it to see if it is sharp are flat or where your head said it should be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is possible, especially at the extreme ends of the piano, to have notes off by a fourth or fifth so they still sound okay (sort of) but not at the octave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For example, your high C may actually be, let's say, an augmented 4th above C, so it sounds lousy but the customer in his ear wants to hear it pulled up to a perfect 5th. You try it and poingggggg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When in doubt, turn those high note pins down, down, down, until you are clearly flat of the octave, then slowly tune it up. Don't keep cranking upwards if you are not sure where the string pitch is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Often, it is MUCH easier to hear the true pitch of high strings with a finger or thumb nail instead of wanging them with the hammer. It eliminates a lot of the "woody" sound of the hammer and heightens the fundamental of the string.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You mentioned being "of a certain age" (it's a big club) and I'm wondering how your hearing is at that end of the piano. If you don't have an ETD but do have hearing loss at higher frequencies, you may need to bite the bullet and buy one. For what it's worth, I like Tunlab on my PocketPC because it is more affordable than others, has everything I need, and has a built in spectrum analyzer that REALLY helps you see what's going on in those top octaves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope it helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alan Barnard</DIV> <DIV>Salem, MO<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Charlie Potter <CHARLES.POTTER2@VERIZON.NET><BR>Sent: Mar 12, 2006 11:03 AM <BR>To: Pianotech List <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG><BR>Subject: ohoh <BR><BR></DIV><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><ZZZMETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name="GENERATOR"> <STYLE></STYLE> </ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY bgColor="#ffffff"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am a newbe-wanabee and an old man. I am learning to tune pianos. I have done 1 ok. On the second  a Kawai I have broken the last string c88 2 times because the owner says it isnt pitched high enough.Could anyone tell me what I am doing wrong,Charlie</FONT></DIV></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML><PRE>Salem, Missouri </PRE> <P> <HR> <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML><PRE> Salem, Missouri </PRE> <P> <HR> <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>