<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am sorry I left this out of my first e-mail.I
am newbe and am wanting to learn this craft. I will attend my first Guild
meeting tonite and I want to tell everyone on the list that I am amazed at the
cooperation and helpI have recieved. I have been involve with several groups in
my lifetime but I firmly believe this is the first group I have ever dealt with
that has no peronal axes to grind jus people helping people. I am proud to be a
member of this group! Charlie PS if you are in Tampa or GA come by and the beer
is on me.</FONT>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=anrebe@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:anrebe@sbcglobal.net">Andrew and
Rebeca Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=tune4u@earthlink.net
href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">Alan Barnard</A> ; <A
title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:13
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: ohoh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Mr. Potter,<BR>I've worked with a 490ST before and its
templates are approximations that need to be aurally checked and corrected to
better fit the beast in front of you. <BR><BR>If you are not getting a
good pattern on the high treble, you may actually be tuning too high as
described by Alan. The Peterson doesn't have a C8 so you would augment
C7 by the difference between B7 and A#7 (you can find that in the manual
tables in the back). This would get C8 stretched consistently to the
template you chose. The templates themselves are approximations of
vaguely defined pianos and will rarely (never) fit perfectly to any piano
actually in front of you. Test your intervals and then use the +/-
buttons to adjust (wish that was a rotary knob). I eventually went to
the Veritune VT100 to help me with my pitch corrections and tuning test
practice.<BR><BR>The Peterson is a fast simple analog tuner that does not
listen to and analyze the piano you're tuning. It just rapidly gives you
interference patterns. If you want to know how to use it to achieve
high-quality tunings go to the PTG.ORG bookstore and order "On Pitch".
Another book to get is "Different Strokes" which is about using your tuning
hammer effectively.<BR><BR>There are more possible reason for broken strings:
>wrong gage<, too rough a hammer technique for the extreme treble, badly
corroded capo/v-bar, etc. Did the new string render readily? Are
you rapidly overshooting pitch either way in the high treble?<BR><BR>Good
luck,<BR>Andrew Anderson<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>At 08:34 PM 3/12/2006, you
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Uhhhh .... that machine is, uh,
how shall I say it ... not the right tool for the task at hand and
very.<BR> <BR>I mean no disrespect here, but you've given us very
little info about yourself: Do you understand tempered tuning?
Inharmonicity? And that sort of thing? Or are you tuning, for example, A's
at 27.5, 55, 110, 220, 440, 880, 1760, and 3520 Hz (for
example)?<BR> <BR>Try plucking C8 while playing C7, etc., without the
machine. You may do better.<BR> <BR>Where do you
live?<BR> <BR>Alan Barnard<BR>Salem,
MO<BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Charlie
Potter <BR>Sent: Mar 12, 2006 7:46 PM <BR>To: Alan Barnard , Pianotech List
<BR>Subject: Re: ohoh <BR><BR><FONT size=2>Hi Allen Thanks for the info. My
hearing probably isnt that good anymore but I use a peterson 490st to assist
my ears.I am finding it hard to use the peterson on the very low or high
octave.I know the string is correct.I will try your advive Monday.Thanks
again,Charlie<BR></FONT>
<DL>
<DD>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<DD>From:</B> <A href="mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net">Alan Barnard</A> <BR>
<DD>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> <BR>
<DD>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:31 PM<BR>
<DD>Subject:</B> Re: ohoh<BR><BR>
<DD>Not without more information ... but unless the string was replaced
with wire that is too heavy (can't reach pitch without breaking) then you
are definitely tuning it sharp. Not just a little sharp but wayyyy
sharp.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Are you tuning by ear or with an electronic device?<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Do your treble octaves sound right to you up to the last one?<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>One "trick" to better hear treble tuning is to press the sustain pedal
and slowly play a two-octave, arppegiated chord leading up to the top note
of the chord--the note you are checking--but pausing a couple of seconds
before playing that last note, i.e., hearing it in your mind first then
sounding it to see if it is sharp are flat or where your head said it
should be.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>It is possible, especially at the extreme ends of the piano, to have
notes off by a fourth or fifth so they still sound okay (sort of) but not
at the octave.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>For example, your high C may actually be, let's say, an augmented 4th
above C, so it sounds lousy but the customer in his ear wants to hear it
pulled up to a perfect 5th. You try it and poingggggg.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>When in doubt, turn those high note pins down, down, down, until you
are clearly flat of the octave, then slowly tune it up. Don't keep
cranking upwards if you are not sure where the string pitch is.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Often, it is MUCH easier to hear the true pitch of high strings with a
finger or thumb nail instead of wanging them with the hammer. It
eliminates a lot of the "woody" sound of the hammer and heightens the
fundamental of the string.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>You mentioned being "of a certain age" (it's a big club) and I'm
wondering how your hearing is at that end of the piano. If you don't have
an ETD but do have hearing loss at higher frequencies, you may need to
bite the bullet and buy one. For what it's worth, I like Tunlab on my
PocketPC because it is more affordable than others, has everything I need,
and has a built in spectrum analyzer that REALLY helps you see what's
going on in those top octaves.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Hope it helps.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Alan Barnard<BR>
<DD>Salem, MO<BR><BR><BR>
<DD>-----Original Message----- <BR>
<DD>From: Charlie Potter <BR>
<DD>Sent: Mar 12, 2006 11:03 AM <BR>
<DD>To: Pianotech List <BR>
<DD>Subject: ohoh <BR><BR>
<DD><FONT size=2>I am a newbe-wanabee and an old man. I am learning to
tune pianos. I have done 1 ok. On the second a Kawai I have broken
the last string c88 2 times because the owner says it isnt pitched high
enough.Could anyone tell me what I am doing wrong,Charlie<BR></FONT><BR>
<DD><PRE>Salem, Missouri
</PRE><FONT face="Courier New, Courier">
<HR>
</FONT>
<DD>_______________________________________________<BR>
<DD>Pianotech list info: <A
href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"
eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A><BR><BR></DD></DL><BR><PRE>
Salem, Missouri
</PRE><FONT
face="Courier New, Courier"></FONT>_______________________________________________<BR>Pianotech
list info: <A href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"
eudora="autourl">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Pianotech list info:
https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>