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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you for the advice Avery. I do in fact tune
unisons at the top by playing the key rapidly and listening for the pure,
bell-like sound. It becomes increasingly difficult to hear this as I approach C8
though, and to make sure I am on track I have to pluck the three strings
with my fingernail to hear if they are close. The problem still seems to be
getting the unisons to stay in tune after the tuning is complete, so that some
of them don't go out several weeks or days after. When you set the tuning
pin I thought you had to bring the pitch slightly higher by a few beats per
second and then bring it down into tune by turning the tuning lever,
and it is difficult or impossible to hear any beats when the notes are as high
as this. The movement of the tuning lever required to make any change in the
beats in the high treble is so minute anyway, and I don't know how anyone can
move it with such precision.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also noticed the phenomenon you mentioned
about the Accutuner when the lights start out fixed or moving slowly on the
initial attack and then move rapidly afterwards. I don't know why this is
either. It seems to happen on the highest notes. Maybe it's some strange
vibrational mode in the shorter strings that causes a shift in the
frequency, or perhaps it has something to do with false beats. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=avery1@houston.rr.com href="mailto:avery1@houston.rr.com">Avery</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, June 03, 2006 5:36
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: A First Tuning</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Robert, <BR><BR>I almost posted this privately, but there are
so many "newbies" on the list right now, I thought maybe this might help
someone else, so I'm "opening" myself up! :-) <BR><BR>Something I was told
many, many years ago at a convention about the unison thing in the high
treble, is to listen for a <BR>"bell" type of sound while playing the note
fairly quickly, repeatedly, while manipulating the string. Don't even try to
hear the beats. Just listen for that clear, bell sound to come in and then
leave it! High unisons sometimes have some weird sound characteristics, so for
most situations, that's very adequate. <BR><BR>I tuned aurally for app. 25+
yrs. but I've noticed since I got an SAT III that in the high treble, the
lights will react one way on the initial attack, but immediately after, they
will move drastically one way or the other. BTW, I've never understood why
that is. Anyone have an answer? <BR><BR>When I was trained as a CTE, I was
told to read the machine on the initial attack of the hammer. Not on a
sustained sound. So that's what I still do on a tuning. I've tuned for a lot
of big-name artists here at the university and "downtown" and so far
(knock on wood) :-D, I've never had a problem. <BR><BR>Actually, the same type
of "bell" sound on the attack can also be useful for octaves. I was a voice
major in college and also did a lot of accompanying, so I have a pretty good
ear. I used the bell thing even back then but in a critically important
situation especially, I would run a 3-4 octave arpeggio to make sure the top
note didn't sound flat to me as a musician! And IMO, that's the most important
thing. One's ear! <BR><BR>Hopefully, Conrad's flame suit won't be needed!
:-D<BR><BR>Avery Todd<BR>University of Houston<BR><BR>At 02:20 PM 6/3/2006,
you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica"
size=2>Hello Michelle. I am at a similar stage to yourself. I also have the
Randy Potter course, and have tuned pianos that usually take about 2 hours
to complete. I hope my speed will increase with practice. I have an
Accutuner and found this helpful to check the accuracy of my tuning when I
do some of it by ear. I now find that I am getting to the stage where the
lights on the Accutuner move slowly or are fixed on some of the notes in the
temperament, so I guess that shows that my accuracy is improving, and soon,
hopefully, I will be able to tune entirely by ear. I also found it helpful
to tune the temperament using the Accutuner and listen to the beat rates of
the various intervals This helped me to adjust them by ear because I
know what the beat rates should sound like and how they should gradually get
faster going up the keyboard. <BR></FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>The hardest thing I find so far is to tune
the octaves and unisons in the highest part of the treble because the sound
dies away so quickly and it is difficult to detect any ripple in order to
compare beat rates. I have tried various tests that have been suggested but
it's still difficult to do. Another challenge is getting the unisons in the
treble to stay in tune. I apply firm test blows to equalize the string
tension and set the pins by tuning slightly higher and bringing it down to
zero beat, but they still tend to go out. I guess it requires a lot of
patience, perseverance and practice. <BR></FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>Robert Finley<BR></FONT>
<DL>
<DD>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<DD>From:</B> <A href="mailto:michelle@cdaustin.com">Michelle Smith</A>
<BR>
<DD>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</A> <BR>
<DD>Sent:</B> Friday, June 02, 2006 11:20 PM<BR>
<DD>Subject:</B> RE: A First Tuning<BR><BR>
<DD><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica" color=#000080 size=2>Hi Marshall.
Im going to answer this on the list because a couple of people have
asked. All of you seasoned tuners out there can commence cringing at
my lack of experience. <BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>I decided to enter this field in January of this year, purchased the
Randy Potter course, read ever darned word of the thing(!), and purchased
a Cybertuner. Ive practiced extensively on my baby grand and two
clunkers, have tuned the pianos of several family/friends, and have now
tuned 2 customer pianos. <BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>While I do depend on my ETD very much, I take the time to check my
intervals in the temperament area before moving on with the tuner. I
dont feel quite ready to tune a customer piano completely by ear.
As far as time is concerned, it takes me 2 to 2.5 hours if I have to do a
pitch raise.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Ive also gotten involved with my local chapter, attended an Associate
Seminar (I highly recommend one of these), and have a casual arrangement
with a local rebuilder where I can visit/do work for free. (Aka
slave labor.)<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>If my husband were sitting here, he would tell you Im
obsessed. A tuner friend told me with my musicians ear and
obsessive tendencies, I should do just fine in this business. Ha Ha
Ha!<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Have a wonderful weekend.<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD>Michelle Smith<BR>
<DD>Bastrop, Texas<BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD><BR>
<DD><BR>
<HR>
<DIV align=center></FONT></DIV>
<DD><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [<A
href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of </B>pianotune05<BR>
<DD>Sent:</B> Friday, June 02, 2006 9:48 PM<BR>
<DD>To:</B> Pianotech List<BR>
<DD>Subject:</B> Re: A First Tuning<BR></FONT>
<DD><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times"><BR></FONT>
<DD><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica">Hi MIchelle,<BR>
<DD>As a new tech myself, I'm curious. How long did it take you to tune
this piano? How many tunings did you do before you first paid
one? I'm just curious to see how others are doing?<BR>
<DD>Marshall<BR></FONT></DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>