<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Farrell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 6:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: post pitch-raise creep?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Doesn't sound right. When doing the PR, are you using an ETD? <SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=3> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4>Only to measure the amount it's flat and to tune the initial A4 sharp by 40% of the amount it was flat.</FONT>  </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006> </SPAN>Unisons as you go? <SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=3> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006>No.  All the middle strings, then all the unisons, then the bass, which sometimes needs very little raising.  I can do it fastest that way.    </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006> </SPAN>41% is very large percentage for overpull. Most ETDs recommend between 20% and 35%, depending on the area of the scale.<SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=3> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=4>And I say that's usually not enough.  If it's 20 cents flat, half of that (50%) is 10 cents, and a third of that (33%) is about 7 cents.  So I pull A4 halfway in between those numbers, or about 8 1/2 cents sharp, which is roughly 40% of the amount it was flat.  (I notice in other posts, some tuners use up to 37% in some areas of the piano.)  Then I do the pitch raise, all the octaves, then all the unisons.  Almost every time, A4 ends up right on 440, and the rest of the rough tuning is very close.   So I go ahead and do the tuning (fine tuning).  It's after I'm done with the fine tuning, when I go back to check for anything that has slipped, that I find the middle of the piano and the low tenor has crept sharp by a beat or even two.  </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Immediately after the PR, do you check the middle section for pitch? <SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=4> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006>Yes, and it's almost always right on 440, so I proceed with the fine tuning.  It's after the fine tuning that I find it has crept sharp in the middle.  The low tenor is also quite sharp, so now I leave that area a bit flat during the pitch raise.  And during the tuning (fine tuning), the SAT always seems to "tune" the bass too flat, even if the bass didn't need a pitch raise.  </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006> </SPAN>If it is at or near target, there is no reason for it to creek up. <SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=4> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006>One wouldn't think so.  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006> </SPAN>How large a pitch gain are you talking about? <SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT size=4> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006>Anywhere from just a few beats flat to a half-step flat.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=237493909-09072006> </SPAN>I've never noticed such a phenomena.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4>That's "phenomenon."  Phenomena is plural.</FONT>  <FONT size=4>(Just for your own info.)</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT face=Arial size=4>--David Nereson, RPT</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=237493909-09072006></SPAN><SPAN class=237493909-09072006><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><SPAN class=237493909-09072006>    </SPAN><SPAN class=114315606-07072006></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>