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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Avery,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you so much for your excellent advice. You
were right in your guess that I tune aurally. I don't own an ETD and don't plan
to get one until after I pass my aural exam. Then probably, I might reward
myself with one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From the sounds of it, I wonder if I don't give my
customers enough warning about the possibility of breaking a string. Do you have
them sign something before you start that they agree to pay for a broken string
and that it wouldn't be your fault if one did break? Or do you just tell them
before you start?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=avery1@houston.rr.com href="mailto:avery1@houston.rr.com">Avery</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 22, 2006 9:34
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Story and Clark not tuned
for 30 years!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=4>Hi Sam, <BR><BR>I'm going to go ahead and post my
thoughts on this before the thread gets too old. Because you indicate you're
pretty new at this, I'm going to go into some detail and hope that you, and
maybe some others, will find something that will be useful somewhere along the
way. Warning: It's kind of long!<BR><BR></FONT><FONT size=3>At 09:12 PM
7/21/2006, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Hello all,<BR><BR>The other day,
I tuned an old Story and Clark upright. When I opened it, I found the
business card of the last tech who tuned it. It was dated 07/26/1976, almost
exactly 30 years ago.<BR><BR>Norm Larson of South Haven, Minnesota, are you
still around?<BR><BR>A gave it a quick inspection, and it appeared to be in
decent shape. I vacuumed it out for the customer. There didn't appear to be
any rust on the tuning pins or the strings. Most of the hammers didn't have
any grooves, and those that did were very slight. The soundboard didn't have
any cracks.<BR><BR>I didn't dare raise it to pitch because it had been so
long since it was tuned. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>First, let me say that I
normally will not tune a piano "to itself" unless there's some structural
reason not to (very loose pins, very rusty strings, evidence of previous
string breakage, etc.). With appropriate warnings to the customer about the
possibility of string breakage & their agreement to pay the extra charges
involved in bringing a neglected instrument up to pitch, of course. Your
customer might not be a piano player/musician but he might have friends who
are. I don't want some good musician friend coming over to play the "just
tuned" piano and after hearing it, says, "I thought you just had this piano
tuned!?" There goes my reputation with that musician!<BR><BR>Also, if there
are children learning to play, it's important for a piano to be up to pitch.
Their ears are being trained as well as their fingers! <BR><BR>On the rare
occasion that I've tuned a piano to itself, here's the basic process I used
for over 25 years before I started using an ETD. <BR><BR>The low bass strings
on a piano can only be a little flat before they start sounding very "tubby",
so since the bass is usually not as flat as the middle and treble, I would
usually start with low A (A0) and tune the A's up to A4 and use that as my
starting pitch. You might also want to tune the higher A's just to get an idea
if the treble is appreciably flatter than the middle and lower sections.
<BR><BR>Tune a very quick temperament and do your octaves and unisons from
there. One warning. Using this method (or any other, for that matter), it's
still likely the upper third or so of the instrument is going to be flat
enough to still need two passes even if you're only tuning it to itself.
<BR><BR>On a normal pitch raise, pulling sharp, if the piano was severely flat
as well as old, after setting the temperament, I might just tune all the F's,
then all the F#'s, etc. (I used an F to F temperament.) My thoughts on this
were that I was spreading out the tension change more evenly on the soundboard
and plate. I don't know if that's really true or not, but that was why "I" did
it that way. <BR><BR>Then go back and pull in the unisons. I'd usually start
with the bottom temperament note and go up. Then go down from the temperament
tuning the bass. Don't worry about getting a clean unison. They're going to
change anyway. Actually, I'd usually even pull the unisons in a little sharp
because I knew the middle string had already dropped some. Just pull in the
unisons as fast as you can go. The point here is not wasting time trying to
get really clean unisons because on a severe pitch raise, they're going to
change! They're going to change some in other scenarios also, but that's a
'nuther story! :-) <BR><BR>When I'm doing a big pitch raise on an old
instrument, if more than one string in the middle broke, then I'd back off and
tune it low. If none broke until the high treble, I'd just go ahead and let
them break and then replace them. I'd also inform the customer that this is
what I'd be doing. <BR><BR>I'm going to assume that you tune aurally since you
didn't mention how many cents flat the instrument was. <BR>If an instrument
that age is severely flat, like 75-100 cents or more, and I wanted to be
cautious, I might not pull it sharp the first time. Just pull it up to your
fork, set a very quick temperament (1-2 min.) and go. It's going to change
anyway! That way you can get a good idea of how the pins feel and how the
strings feel as they're being stretched. You'll probably eventually run into
an instrument where the strings feel like they've have no more stretch in them
and if you continue, they're going to break. Some usually will. In a case like
that, I'll inform the customer of the situation, back off the pitch some and
then tune it to itself. You really have no choice, except for a restringing.
<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3>I just tuned it to
itself. It was the most horribly out of tune piano I have tuned in my short
career. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because of what you said here, <FONT size=4>if
you don't already, let me advise you to get at least a small roll of all the
plain wire sizes and all the tools needed to replace broken strings! I made
that mistake on my first tuning for pay! Needless to say, after I finally
found someone to come in and replace the string for me, I didn't make any
money on that tuning! <BR><BR></FONT>In a case like your's, the first thing I
would do is to check some of the pins on the worst notes to make sure the
"horrible out-of-tuneness" was not caused by loose tuning pins. But because of
what you mention below, it doesn't sound like it was in this case.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3>When I was over, it
still sounded terrible to me, but the customer was thrilled. He said it was
the best he ever heard it sound (he's not a piano player). I was honest and
didn't pretend that I was happy with how it sounded. I told him that it
would take several tunings to make it sound good. He's having me back in six
months to give it another tuning.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with Bob and
others on this. Six months is too long. Even tuning it to itself, you probably
had a lot of strings that were too flat to stay with only one tuning. That's
probably why it still didn't sound good to you. I'd have gone for 1-3 months
maximum. <BR><BR>After a large pitch raise (pulling sharp and going over it 2+
times), I try to get the customer to have it retuned in at LEAST 1-3 months!
One month is best. Then again in app. 6 months. <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3>The pins seemed to
twist before they moved, making the instrument very hard to tune. When I
moved my tuning hammer, the pitch would go up, then go down when I released
it. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If the pins are tight in the block, this would be
a fairly normal thing. One can almost always hear the pitch change before you
can feel the pin inside the block! No matter what the pitch does though, the
pin MUST move inside the block! <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3>I ended up very
carefully applying constant pressure to the tuning hammer until I felt the
tuning pin turn a little. It worked for me, though it took a long time. As
far as hammer technique goes, was that something you would have
done?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's basically correct and everyone goes
through having to learn to deal with that to set the strings and pins. Some
use a smooth pull method like you said you did, some use a "jerk" type of
method and still others use an impact hammer. <BR><BR><FONT size=4>One problem
you're going to have now though, after doing the "tune it where it was"
tuning, is ever getting him to agree to the extra expense of getting the
instrument up to normal pitch. About the only way you might could get him to
do that now, is if there are children taking lessons, as I said above. Also,
if it ever needs to be played with any other instrument besides a stringed
one, it's not going to be possible. <BR><BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3>Also, the piano had
a sticker that boasted a 50 year guarantee on the sound board. How the heck
could Story and Clark make a 50 year guarantee on the sound board? They'd
have no idea what conditions the thing would be kept in. What did they make
the thing out of? 2" thick plywood?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I believe Ron N.
answered this one very eloquently! Diplomatically, also! :-D<BR><BR>This is
just a way that worked well for me for many years. YMMV. <BR><BR>Now on a
pitch raise, I use my SAT III and start at the bottom and go up, unisons as I
go. Others do it differently. <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3>Sam
Choy</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT size=4>Avery
Todd<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>