<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I doubt you’d get a pure octave-5th and have the double octave still sound acceptable. I’d begin with A3-A4 as a strict 4:2 octave, then see what kind of temperament that makes and how it fits as you expand that to the rest of the piano. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Like I said, don’t expect it to sound like a good piano. The scale just is not capable of that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>JF<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </span></font></div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>pianotune05<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:40 AM<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: piano with 64 or 68 keys? .</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Hi John,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Thanks for the heads up.  Half the time for me will be great since I'm slow at tuning. ;)  I believe the octave fifths are pure right?  This will be interesting.  Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turned out.  I need to call her today to schedule it.  </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Marshall</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> <p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:john@formsmapiano.com" title="john@formsmapiano.com">John M. Formsma</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title="pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:49 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: piano with 64 or 68 keys? .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Marshall</span></font></st1:City></st1:place><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have two of this type--both Aeolian.  There are two strings per unison from about E3 up to the top, then single strings below that. It should take you about half your normal time, and it will still sound bad. ;-)  If you pay close attention to the bass and tune 4:2 octaves, it might sound better. Just listen to your double octaves and octave-5ths and let the piano tell you what it wants. Don’t expect more than it can give, though.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John Formsma<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </span></font></div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>pianotune05<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:33 AM<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> piano with 64 or 68 keys? .</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Hi Everyone,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial'>My wife  met someone yesterday while food shopping who wants her piano tuned.  I'm told that the piano has 64 or 68 keys.  She cannot recall exactly what the woman told her, and it was a piano made especially for kids.  What brand of spinit am I looking at tuning, and is there anything I need to know about it before I tune it?  Thanks again.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Marshall</span></font></st1:City></st1:place><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> <p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:tvaktvak@sbcglobal.net" title="tvaktvak@sbcglobal.net">Tom Sivak</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title="pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re: Upright damper work - newbie seeks opinions, please . . .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Why replace anything more than the felts?  Not sure what you meant by 'multiple wimpy dampers', but if the felts are coming unglued from the damper blocks, then it's time to replace the felts with new ones.  Hot hide glue is the glue of choice.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>As far as what felts to use as replacements, check your Schaff or Pianotek catalog and try to match the existing damper felts.  You can buy a set of bass dampers that will have a preset number of monochord and bichord felts.  Compare that to the number of mono and bi strings on your Knabe.  (You can always buy extras if need be.)  Any set of treble dampers will have enough for your piano, but I usually try to duplicate the size of the existing dampers.  Some pianos have the same size damper felt for the entire treble, while others graduate from larger to smaller.  You can buy sets of either type.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>The one area I might stray from the original design is in the lower trichords.  If the set of dampers you've bought has any trichord wedges, I'd use them even if the original damper layout used exclusively flats for the trichords.  There a little harder to align to the string so that they dampen all three strings equally but once aligned, they do a much better job of muting the strings than the flats.  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>I like to glue the new damper felts on the damper blocks while the action is in the piano, especially for the mono and bichord wedges.  By gluing the new felt on the damper block while the action is in the piano, the new felt seats itself against the strings naturally, and results in having to make fewer adjustments after the glue has dried.  Just lift the damper lever, put the felt (with glue on its back) on the block, and release the lever; the damper spring will firmly keep the felt in place, but still allow it to move slightly from side to side as it finds its natural position between the strings.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>I hope that answered your question...  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Tom Sivak<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chicago</span></font></st1:City></st1:place><br> <br> <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>James H Frazee <jimfrazee@msn.com></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>It's a 1957 Knabe console with multiple wimpy dampers coming unglued.  Should I replace just the felts or the entire damper assembly and, if so [either way], which/whose should I use.  I realize my times will be about double what JG's Labor Guide says but I want to do it right because it's a regular client and nice lady.  Thanks in advance.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'>Jim Frazee<br> 914.763.8689<br> Offlist at:  <a href="mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com" title="mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com">jimfrazee@msn.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </blockquote> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </body> </html>