<HEAD> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>All I can find in my files is a tension calculator derived from information on the Pure sound web site, so I was wrong to say I calculated the inharmonicity.  Nevertheless, it sounded good.</DIV> <DIV>Ed</DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><BR> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Gene Nelson <NELSONG@PBIC.NET><BR>Sent: Jul 26, 2006 6:30 PM <BR>To: ed440@mindspring.com, Pianotech List <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG><BR>Subject: Re: Pure Sound (was A 435 or A 440 ?) <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZZZMETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name="GENERATOR"></ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY bgColor="#ffffff"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is very good news Ed, thank you very much.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I lack a spread sheet for Pure Sound. I suppose that the numbers that Stephane gave could be used to develope one?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gene</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ed440@mindspring.com href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com">ed440@mindspring.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:32 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pure Sound (was A 435 or A 440 ?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Stephane-</DIV> <DIV>I also want to thank you for clear and well thought out tests.</DIV> <DIV>Juan mas Cabre calculated a Pure Sound scale for a square grand I restrung with Pure Sound wire.  The results were pleasing, but my expectations for that piano were not very high.</DIV> <DIV>Gene-</DIV> <DIV>I used the leftover wire on the lowest plain wire strings of a large Ivers and Pond upright, and the results were pleasing.  The spread sheet showed a better inharmonicity curve and tuning and voicing were smooth.</DIV> <DIV>Ed Sutton<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Gene Nelson <NELSONG@PBIC.NET><BR>Sent: Jul 26, 2006 4:13 PM <BR>To: Pianotech List <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG><BR>Subject: Re: Pure Sound (was A 435 or A 440 ?) <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZZZMETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name="GENERATOR"> <STYLE></STYLE> </ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY bgColor="#ffffff"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephane,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you very much for this information.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do not have any experience with Pure Sound but had entertained the idea of using it in place of wound bi-chords in the lo-tenor of a 5'8" Knabe rather than try to get a string maker to wind the ultra small wrap or make a 3rd bridge.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sounds like I could indeed get a bit more tension and less inharmonicity. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Any thoughts?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gene Nelson</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=collin.s@skynet.be href="mailto:collin.s@skynet.be">Stéphane Collin</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ed440@mindspring.com href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com">ed440@mindspring.com</A> ; <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:42 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pure Sound (was A 435 or A 440 ?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello Ed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can not claim that I have a long time experience using Pure Sound wire.  But I did some tests when I was about to restring a 1864 Pleyel piano.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pure Sound is a bit heavier wire than Röslau : it's volumetric mass is 7900 kg/m³, while Röslau's is 7850 Kg/m³.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This means that if you use the same speaking lengths and the same diameters, you will need a bit more tension with Pure Sound to achieve the same frequency.  Well, not much difference at this level between the two materials.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>More significant difference is in the elasticity modulus (Young's modulus), which tells about how easily the material bends or stretches.  This is 187.5 kN/mm² for Pure Sound, while 210 kN/mm² for Röslau (those numbers represent the stress in kN to apply theoretically to a 1mm² section wire in order to double it's length).  So, while slightly heavier material, Pure Sound is more flexible.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another difference of practical use when stringing is the breaking strength.  In my example of a A4 wire of 0.85 mm diameter, Pure Sound would break at 113.8 kg force while Röslau at 137 kg force.  So, Pure Sound breaks earlier when tension rises, or, for a same speaking length and same diameter string at same pitch, will be closer to breaking strength than Röslau.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My tests were intended to make the link with the practical world of piano shop and the subjective appreciation of the sound given in situation by those different strings.  I limited myself to installing side by side a Röslau string and a Pure Sound string on the same unisson at 3 different octaves with appropriate and similar gauge, and explore the sound quality of single note, octave and double octave when progressively rising the tension.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So I first tuned the strings at their "normal" pitch, that is at the frequency of the note as compared to A4 = 440 Hz, and waited for a week or so, doing many tunings until the strings were a bit stabilized.  First remark : Pure Sound was much quicker stable than Röslau. <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When compared at that normal pitch, the intuitive feeling is that Pure Sound has less subjective inharmonicity, I mean that a single note sounds indeed more pure than the same note with Röslau, more calm sound if you see what I mean.  This is due, I think, to the smaller elasticity modulus, allowing the wire to bend easier at the termination points.  Now, when playing octaves, the good feeling of low inharmonicity seems to be decieving, turning into a lack of character.  Also (but not really sure of that) I had a feeling of less power with Pure Sound.  Difficult to say with one string.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Then I started tweeking the tensions to simulate what if I would rescale with other tensions.</DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Röslau wire broke in the piano at an augmented fourth above it's normal pitch (compared to A4 = 440 Hz), and Pure Sound broke at only a major third above it's normal pitch.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Röslau sounds awful when tensionned less than a major second below it's intended pitch, sounds great when at pitch, and looses much interest and sustain when pulled over pitch.  C4 lasting 18 seconds (approximately, from what I could hear) reduces it's sustain to only 9 seconds when pulled up to the pitch of F#4.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pure Sound, indeed, still sounds acceptable even a major third under it's normal pitch, but has the same tendency to loose interest at higher tensions.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What I for now retain of my experiment (before other experiments confirm or infirm this, of course), is that Pure Sound accepts (as claimed by Juan màs Cabré) to be lower tensionned than equivalent Röslau gauge (and probably gaining so a bit inharmonicity, which I believe is necessary for a good piano sound).  I see no valid point in trying to string as close as possible to the material breaking strength (as claimed long ago by Mersenne, but he was talking violin and cat guts) as in my opinion the sound gets progressively less interesting and certainly less long lasting in that area (not talking about the thump sound that gets really ennoying).  So I would tend to choose Pure Sound for older shorter scales indeed, in a low tension figure.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, I feel that when choosing Pure Sound wire a rescaling would be needed, if possible by ear.  Retaining the original scaling gauges for the sake of respecting the original makes no sense to me in this case.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course, one can only juge on a whole stringing job that has streched for many month, in order to give a pertinent aesthetic value to the result.  Then, restring the same piano with other scaling and/or other material, see if it improves the whole figure.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I hope others with experience with Pure Sound will chime in and share their founds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>P.s. : I ended up stringing the 1864 Pleyel with Röslau, because the Röslau wire sounded great when matching the scaling gauges that were there (possibly not original, though).  I believe Pleyel has been very quick to import, copy and improve English steel, and the model I was working on was evidently a straight forward one.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>p.s. 2 : long ago, I restringed a 1895 Bechstein model D (240 cm) with Pure Sound, retaining original gauges.  The piano lacked interest and charm, for sure, but was this due to stringing or to something else ?  Dunno.  Anyway, I'm sure now that for Bechstein pianos, from the start (1853), Röslau is a better choice, better matching the original material.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best regards.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stéphane Collin.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ed440@mindspring.com href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com">ed440@mindspring.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:54 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Pure Sound (was A 435 or A 440 ?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Stephane-</DIV> <DIV>Would you tell us your impressions of Pure Sound wire?</DIV> <DIV>Ed Sutton<BR><BR><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid"> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>