<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi John,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'll interspread my comments but have questions. Would this be a case of insurance claim? If so, I would make an estimate to replace whatever was touched by water. If not and the owners are money thight, I would just CA the 3 pins in question. This is a non invasive procedure and you should be able to feel the results in about 15 minutes. A second application may be in order to achieve desired result. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=fr dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><BR></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello - to answer some questions below:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Water did get into the tuning pins area - rust on coils and pins indicates this.</DIV> <DIV>2) I never saw this piano before being called to assess the damage - so do not know much of it's history.   It was terribly out of tune, so I proceeded to tune it partly to just see if it would hold it's tune.  (It is).  The three notes in question (F#2-G2-G#2) each have one pin that will not hold pitch (extremely loose).  In fact, it rapidly drops more than 100% when pulled up.  The three pins are all in a row - top pin on F#2 and G2 and middle pin on G#2 (top being furthest from the keys).   The water damage was discovered after a couple of days - then the owner opened the piano and ran a fan for a week or so before I got to it.  It now has been an additional week - so probably 2 weeks or more from damage to present - the pins still won't hold.</DIV> <DIV>3) strings render through agraffes just fine - some of the agraffes are rusty - but most are OK.   Same with tuning pins - most are OK - some are very rusty in the middle section (strangely, not those mentioned above).   Likewise with some stagger pins.</DIV> <DIV>4) by climate control, I simply meant that presently the room has AC running and the RH is at reasonable levels (below 50%) - However, in winter we'll see RH around 5-10% and sometimes in summer up above 70%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My plan is to replace the strings (and tuning pins) as well as clean the light rust from the stagger pins affected.  However, my worst fear is a crack in the pin block in the affected area, which if true, obviously needs to be repaired prior to re-stringing.  Your "wait" advice is exactly what I previously told the customer - we need to make sure the pin block is absolutely dry before condemning it.  Then, I plan to remove the offending pins to (maybe?) permit further drying - and try replacing them with slightly larger (or at least inserting a sleeve) to see if I can get the piano to hold pitch on those spots.  If all goes well, I can proceed with the string replacement and rust cleanup.  If not, I suppose we're looking at a pin block replacement.<SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Please John NEVER NEVER, did I say NEVER use these sleeves. They are useless and even harmfull. If the pinblock is cracked (which I doubt for a Steinway). You would just be enlarging the crack. Same applies to oversized pins in case of a cracked pinblock. This is why I prefer CA for cases like this.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for all the help and please comment on my approach - also, re: the stagger pins - I plan to remove the rust using a very fine sandpaper wrapped around an emery board (like 0000 fineness).  Does anyone see a problem with this?  Is there something I can then put on the stagger pins to inhibit future rust buildup, or should I just leave them alone?   The rust there is very slight, and I think it would be way overkill to remove and replace stagger pins - what do you think?<SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If there is no rust on the speaking lenght, I'm not sure about the necessity to try to remove all the rust between the pins and agraffes. You could use a dremel tool with a brass brush, this would be more efficient than the sandpaper board. </FONT> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV>Lastly (Marcel's question) - how much water are we talking about?  I don't know - seems like not a huge amount.   An air conditioner failed and condensated over the piano - which was covered so most water ran off.  I did see evidence of water in the action - some backchecks were damaged and also some knuckles (the buckskin got wet and shrank away) - felts all looked ok so they seem to have weathered the storm.  This does indicate to me that there must have been a sort of trickle - or stream - of water running down through part of the piano.   The entire bass section is completely unscathed.   Most damage is in the middle - with some rust evident in the high treble as well.   The piano (judging by the appearance of the bass section) previously had no rust - so all the rust we're talking about is "new rust" - for what that's worth.<SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If the water got on the backchecks, you might as well replace them now. They will dry out and harden and make noise. And if there was so much water in there, did it get through to the action? Any signs of excess friction with the hammer flanges? You might as well make sure that you do everything to this piano before it comes back to haunt you. Customers will expect the piano to perform like it was before and shouldn't expect to keep spending money on the long run for this incident. I would give them 2 estimates. One overhaul estimate with full warranty, and, one for just making it work. Ask them about possibility of insurance claim, this could be your way out of just patching things and would give them worry free future.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just my 2¢</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Marcel Carey, RPT</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Sherbrooke, QC</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=296015112-05082006> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks again! - John</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Need more info. Like Marcel asked, "did water get on the (tuning) pins area"? When did this occurr - if you've got fans on the thing, perhaps it has only been a couple days or so? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You state: "...<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>there are three strings F#2-G2-G#2 that will not permit tuning.<FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>" What is it about the strings that will not permit tuning? The strings will not render through the agraffe? The tuning pins are frozen in position? The tuning pins are loose?   More details......... wazzup?</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Depending on how much water got on the pinblock (I'm assuming it got there), and how long it was exposed to the water, and what kind of avenues are there for water to soak into the pinblock, it may take quite a long time for the pinblock to dry out - maybe a month or more for the block moisture content to stablize. Again, depending on how much water might have gotten in there, I'd recommend as a first step to simply give it some time - and a fan is a good thing. See if it doesn't improve after a couple weeks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And if the room is climate controlled, why on earth is the piano equipped with a DC?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=062505914-03082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If the strings are NOT rusted, you could try CA glue on the 3 offending notes. Otherwise, you could replace these strings and tuning pins only. Did the water get on the pins area? How much water are we talking about?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=062505914-03082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=062505914-03082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Depending of the answers to the above questions, I probably would try the CA glue to start with.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=062505914-03082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=062505914-03082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Marcel Carey, RPT</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=062505914-03082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Message d'origine-----<BR></DIV></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>I have a client with a Steinway D (1962) - this piano was damaged by water from an air conditioner condenser failing over it.  The damage seems "minimal", although there are three strings F#2-G2-G#2 that will not permit tuning.  All three pins are in a straight line, and the rest of the pin block permits tuning and so far has been maintaining pitch.   I suspect that the pin block is cracked in the problem area - but hope this not to be the case.   Currently, I have a fan running to gently move air under the pin block - hoping that perhaps a good drying will help the situation (the fallboard is propped open about an inch to permit the air to enter - my thinking is that I didn't want to compromise the operation of the Dampp-chaser too much.   Also, the room is climate controlled and the temperature and RH are at reasonable levels last time I checked).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My questions: 1) is it possible that the pin block is not damaged in the affected area?   2) if it is, is there anything short of replacing the pin block that would help the situation?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This piano is in a "party room" that is no longer used extensively - so it is not in a critical use situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks in advance for any thoughts or assistance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>John Radley</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR SIZE=1> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Get on board. <A href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/handraisers">You're invited</A> to try the new Yahoo! 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