<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE>  </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=blue link=blue bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you just spent $4K to $12K+ on a new vertical piano and it didn't hold a tune, would you be satisfied with oversized tuning pins, with the resultant uneven pin torque and differing pin feel (making it more difficult for tuning over the next xx decades)? I sure wouldn't.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But that's beside the point - IMHO, the piano technician has one immediate responsibility - to be honest with the piano owner and the store - identify the problem and inform both parties that the piano will not hold a tune and it appears a number of tuning pins are low torque. It is not the piano techs place to recommend to the customer a fix - the store owner should be inquiring of the piano tech a recommended fix. Conversations regarding a fix should be restricted to between the store and the customer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now, if the store owner tells the piano owner that they recommend an inadequate fix, and the store owner asks the tech to do it, that's when the piano tech needs to put his/her thinking cap on and consider things like loyalty to the piano store, lines where professional ethics dictate one way or another, etc., etc. Personally, this is why I don't do much work for stores - I have had a number of negative experiences with some piano store owners (some, not all! - some are very ethical.).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I doubt there are structural problems. Probably the drill bit got dull on the bottom row and made the holes a little larger. It can probably be fixed just fine with oversize pins on the ones that are loose. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pianos with extremely hard pin blocks have very little tolerance for variation in hole size or variation in pin size. If the hole gets a little large or the pin a little small on the tolerance side the pin will be loose. It does not mean there is a structural problem. Given the modern piano designer’s propensity to use too many laminations it is extremely unlikely that there is a structural problem in the pin block. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Talk to the tech support person of the manufacturer. They will probably have an established protocol. The trick will be in what you have already communicated to the customer. If you have already prepped the customer to expect nothing less than a new piano, then that is probably the only thing that will satisfy them. On the other hand if you communicate that the mfr will solve the problem you will probably have netted yourself an easy re-pin job.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dean<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>piannaman@aol.com<BR></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> Just got home from a client's home.  She just purchased a piano around 3 months ago, and I was contracted by the store to do a warranty tuning.  While raising the pitch, I noticed a couple of loose tuning pins...then another, another, another, etc.  All along the bottom row of pins.  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I called the owner of the store--a good friend of mine, btw--and told him that the piano should be returned to the factory in exchange for a sound instrument, as it is structurally unsound, and that any repair done to it would be unsuitable to undertake in the customer's home.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What thinketh y'all?  </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>