<html> <body> William, At 03:17 PM 9/21/2006, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""> Avery,   You are right, you shouldn’t have to cover.  What I am saying is there is more than one way to fix the problem.  </blockquote> Of course there is. All I'm saying is that the customer expects a brand new piano that works correctly and is entitled to it. It shouldn't be the dealers "fault" except as much as it wasn't prepped before it was delivered, so the dealer didn't know about the problem. I hope. :-) Avery <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""> The piano can be replaced and the one with loose pins can be repaired and sold at a discount.  The point here is if one is a problem solver or just wants to find fault and make someone pay.   When I worked at Sherman Clay young tuners would find glee in finding a problem that meant the piano had to be returned to the factory.  In every case accept one, a senior tec would find a easy fix and we all stayed in business.   William         PIANO BOUTIQUE William Benjamin Piano Tuner Extraordinaire <a href="http://www.pianoboutique.biz">www.pianoboutique.biz</a> The tuner alone, preserves the tone.   <hr> <div align="center"></div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Avery Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:16 PM To: Pianotech List Subject: RE: this property is condemned...what would you have done?   William, As far as I'm concerned, that isn't the point! The point is that a 3 month old piano has loose tuning pins. Whatever the reason! And in that case, the manufacturer should replace it! I'm personally not going to "cover anyones ass" here! It's their fault and they should have to deal with it/accept the loss/whatever! Just my opinion! Avery At 10:16 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote: Having worked in that position, any piano you can save will save you a store contract and a supplier pat on the back.  No one makes money if the piano has to go back.    William         PIANO BOUTIQUE William Benjamin Piano Tuner Extraordinaire <a href="http://www.pianoboutique.biz">www.pianoboutique.biz</a> The tuner alone, preserves the tone.   <hr> <div align="center"></div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [ <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Dean May Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:11 AM To: 'Pianotech List' Subject: RE: this property is condemned...what would you have done?   I doubt there are structural problems. Probably the drill bit got dull on the bottom row and made the holes a little larger. It can probably be fixed just fine with oversize pins on the ones that are loose.   Pianos with extremely hard pin blocks have very little tolerance for variation in hole size or variation in pin size. If the hole gets a little large or the pin a little small on the tolerance side the pin will be loose. It does not mean there is a structural problem. Given the modern piano designers propensity to use too many laminations it is extremely unlikely that there is a structural problem in the pin block.   Talk to the tech support person of the manufacturer. They will probably have an established protocol. The trick will be in what you have already communicated to the customer. If you have already prepped the customer to expect nothing less than a new piano, then that is probably the only thing that will satisfy them. On the other hand if you communicate that the mfr will solve the problem you will probably have netted yourself an easy re-pin job.   Dean   <hr> <div align="center"></div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [ <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of piannaman@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:36 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: this property is condemned...what would you have done?    Just got home from a client's home.  She just purchased a piano around 3 months ago, and I was contracted by the store to do a warranty tuning.  While raising the pitch, I noticed a couple of loose tuning pins...then another, another, another, etc.  All along the bottom row of pins.    I called the owner of the store--a good friend of mine, btw--and told him that the piano should be returned to the factory in exchange for a sound instrument, as it is structurally unsound, and that any repair done to it would be unsuitable to undertake in the customer's home.   What thinketh y'all?      <hr> <div align="center"></div> <a href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol"> Check out the new AOL</a>. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.</blockquote></body> </html>