<html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> We were working mostly on the new 175 but did some testing with the 190 with Bacon felt hammers toward the end of our session.  The current 190 in production I believe has been modified from the original design which Del would be more qualified to discuss.  In its current iteration the Bacon felt hammer sounded great though the Wurzen felt hammer is not a bad choice.  The Abel felt hammers are a bit too hard, in my view, but they will respond to voicing.           <div> David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net www.davidlovepianos.com </div> -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of piannaman@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:12 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: Hammer Types   <div> David, </div> <div>   </div> <div> Was the 190 one of the pianos in question?  If so, does the Ronsen hammer soften the tone?  I like the pianos, but they have a tendency to be overly bright with teh Abel hammers, though the felt seems soft enough. </div> <div>   </div> <div> Thanks.  Good report. </div> <div>   </div> <div> Dave Stahl Dave Stahl Piano Service 650-224-3560 dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net http://dstahlpiano.net/ </div> <div>   </div>   -----Original Message----- From: davidlovepianos@comcast.net To: caut@ptg.org; pianotech@ptg.org Sent: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Hammer Types <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_79cc318c-576d-4943-a3ea-9d793e347699"> <tt>I can't speak for Del with respect to using Isaac hammers, I know he did use</tt> <tt>them at one time.  However, I just spent the better part of a week with Del</tt> <tt>at the Charles Walter Piano Co. in Indian exploring different hammer</tt> <tt>possibilities on a couple of Del's designs that they have in production.  I</tt> <tt>spent a couple of days setting up three identical pianos with three</tt> <tt>different hammers: Abel (relatively soft ones), Ronsen Wurzen and Ronsen</tt> <tt>Bacon.  The hammers we chose, ultimately, were Ronsen Bacon felt hammers.</tt> <tt>They required no hardening (except for light filing in the treble), and</tt> <tt>produced more than adequate power with excellent and broad dynamic range.</tt> <tt>It was a great illustration of what happens when soundboard design is</tt> <tt>properly matched with hammer weight and density.  </tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>Isaac hammers (when unhardened--which they are not always when received) are</tt> <tt>similar in density to Ronsen Bacon hammers--perhaps slightly firmer.</tt> <tt>Generally speaking, however, the amount of hardener you need will depend on</tt> <tt>the soundboard you put them on.  I think you are always better off choosing</tt> <tt>a hammer that does not require hardening to begin with (or too much</tt> <tt>softening for that matter).  Lacquer is unstable, continues to get hard over</tt> <tt>time, and has the potential for locking up the fibers of the felt.  So</tt> <tt>looking for a general formula is a mistake, in my view.  How much hardener</tt> <tt>you use (if you must) will depend on how the board responds and must be</tt> <tt>considered anew with each piano.  I have used Ronsen Bacon felt hammers on</tt> <tt>several pianos (some of Del's designs included) where no hardening at all</tt> <tt>was needed.  I have also used Wurzen felt hammers on other pianos that were</tt> <tt>not nearly dense enough and sometimes too dense.  I have used Renner hammers</tt> <tt>on pianos where no amount of needling was sufficient to produce the sound I</tt> <tt>was aiming for yet on other pianos they were fine.  When working with</tt> <tt>different types of pianos from new ones to those in varying states of</tt> <tt>deterioration, having a range of hammers to choose from is vital, in my</tt> <tt>view.  I think that it is important to get away from the idea of "one hammer</tt> <tt>fits all" which also means to avoid putting yourself in the position of</tt> <tt>trying to make a soft hammer hard or a hard hammer soft.  Choose the hammer</tt> <tt>with the density and weight that matches the soundboard response from the</tt> <tt>start.  While it requires more experience to get a handle on, and/or lots of</tt> <tt>sampling, you will have an easier time getting to where you want and the</tt> <tt>piano's voice will be more stable over time.  </tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>David Love</tt> <tt><a href="mailto:davidlovepianos%40comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a> </tt> <tt><a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a></tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>-----Original Message-----</tt> <tt>From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces%40ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces%40ptg.org">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Bob</tt> <tt>Hull</tt> <tt>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:36 PM</tt> <tt>To: College and University Technicians</tt> <tt>Subject: [CAUT] Hammer Types</tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>Caut List,</tt> <tt>Along with Chris, I would like to hear some reports</tt> <tt>about Ari Isaac's hammers.  Did I read somewhere that</tt> <tt>Del uses them?  </tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>Also, how does the amount of generally required</tt> <tt>hardening compare between the Bacon felt and Steinway</tt> <tt>hammers (before they started pre-lacquering)?  </tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>Bob Hull</tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>--- Chris Solliday <<a href="mailto:solliday%40ptd.net">solliday@ptd.net</a>> wrote:</tt> <tt> </tt> <tt>> Rick and list,</tt> <tt>>  I have been very pleased with Ronsen Wurzen felt</tt> <tt>> hammers and the Bacon felt</tt> <tt>> which I use in smaller situations and requires more</tt> <tt>> hardener. Also Abel</tt> <tt>> Selects sold by Pianotek are similar to the R Ws and</tt> <tt>> I have several pianos</tt> <tt>> with them on for a couple of years now and they are</tt> <tt>> quite durable. Also have</tt> <tt>> some with Renner Reds and Hamburg Steinway (very</tt> <tt>> much like Renner Reds). I</tt> <tt>> never did like Renner Blues much,although I have</tt> <tt>> used them and they are OK</tt> <tt>> they sound great on a Yamaha C7 in a local studio</tt> <tt>> but generally just not</tt> <tt>> powerful enough and not much distinction to be had</tt> <tt>> between forte and</tt> <tt>> fortissimo and sforzando at those levels. I really</tt> <tt>> have to work with the</tt> <tt>> Renner Reds and hamburgers to open them up. The</tt> <tt>> Ronsen Wur and Abel Selects</tt> <tt>> are less work with full   dynamic range. LAcquering</tt> <tt>> must be done judiciously</tt> <tt>> on these types of hammers. I don't recommend keytop</tt> <tt>> except at the very top</tt> <tt>> if needed. I'm with Rick, we are very fortunate to</tt> <tt>> have such a fine array of</tt> <tt>> hammers to choose from. I have no experience with</tt> <tt>> Ari Issac's where do they</tt> <tt>> " fit in?"</tt> <tt>> Remember when we only had Standard, Pfreimmer,</tt> <tt>> Steinway, Baldwin and then</tt> <tt>> the glorious Imadegawas? Holy  cowabunga dudes are</tt> <tt>> we lucky.</tt> <tt>> Chris Solliday</tt> <tt>> ----- Original Message ----- </tt> <tt>> From: <<a href="mailto:caut-request%40ptg.org">caut-request@ptg.org</a>></tt> <tt>> To: <<a href="mailto:caut%40ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a>></tt> <tt>> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:00 PM</tt> <tt>> Subject: caut Digest, Vol 1091, Issue 7</tt> <tt> </tt> <tt> </tt> <tt> </tt> <tt> </tt> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div>  <a href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank">Check out the new AOL</a>. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. </div> </div> </body> </html>