<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Got me thinking about acoustics, which is actually very Zen. Not the thinking. The acoustics.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>A musical instrument, with the possible exception of brass, is not a single point sound source. Add to that the environment in which it is performing and you have a real 3D aural experience. A microphone, on the other hand, is a single point device. (Binaural, or dummy-head, recording is an entirely different matter. And since, by design, binaural recordings are intended to be reproduced through headphones I don't think they belong in this discussion.)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Let's pretend that a piano is just an extremely large variation on an acoustic guitar. Now let's talk about the acoustic guitar. The sound that comes out of the guitar is not just from the strings any more than it is in a piano. The body is both a resonate cavity and an amplifier. The sound, therefore, comes from so many places: the hole, front and real sound-boards, and even the neck to some exten<SPAN class=843011102-07012007>t</SPAN>. Add to that the environment in which it is being played and you now you have to think about the reflections of that sound coming off the floor, ceiling and walls. What are those surfaces made of? How far away are they? You just cannot capture that entire audio picture with one, or even two or three microphones. Single point recording devices are only capturing the sound as it exists at their placement. On the other hand we, as listeners, are hearing the entire three dimensional environment. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, you <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">mic</SPAN></SPAN> an instrument up close and you get documentation of a single point of sou<SPAN class=correction id="">nd </SPAN>coming off that instrument. You then run that recording through whatever electronics and a speaker and you still only have reference to that original single point source. OK, so you record that instrument with a number of <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">mics</SPAN></SPAN>, placing some of them out in the room. You now have your original close <SPAN class=correction id="">mic</SPAN> reference plus some added room. You now have a decent recording of that instrument,<STRONG> </STRONG>but you also now have a decent recording of that room. In other words, it is still not a recording of the sound that the instrument is actually producing. If you play that recording back into the same room in which it was recorded you are now adding the recorded sound of that space back into that same space allowing it to interact with it a second time.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now, grow that acoustic guitar into a piano. With this increase in size the complexity of the object producing sound in the environment just grows right along with it. Not to mention the increase in complexity of the sound waves coming off it's many surfaces.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>The only thing that will ever sound like a real live three dimensional piano in a given space is going to be a real live three dimensional piano in a given space. Anything else, no matter how good the recording, is just an incomplete reproduction. And without the technology to both capture that three dimensional object in three dimensions, and then reproduce it in a similar three dimensional way, the best we can hope for is stereo, which is missing a lot more than just one dimension. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Part of what I'm saying here is why, in my opinion, an electronic piano may never sound like a real piano. Part of what I'm saying is in answer to Alan's questions as to why they, piano's, are so hard to record. Coming from years of experience as a recording engineer I would like to suggest to anyone wanting to record a piano, or any instrument for that matter, to first understand what that instrument is supposed to sound like. While it is being played, move around the instrument and see how your perception of the sound changes as you move. Once you find a position where you like the sound of the instrument, put up a couple of high quality <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">mics</SPAN></SPAN>, right there. Then go back into the control room and listen to that sound flat, with no <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">eq</SPAN></SPAN> and no <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">reverb</SPAN></SPAN>. If you have decent monitors it should sound pretty darn close to what you heard out in the studio. If not, before you go changing things in the control room, start moving the <SPAN class=correction id="">mics</SPAN> around in small amounts until you are satisfied. Remember, what you do in the control room should be viewed as frosting, or perhaps polishing. Bad <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">micing</SPAN></SPAN> cannot be corrected by <SPAN class=correction id="">eq</SPAN>. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Let me follow up by saying that what I suggest up above is for recording a solo performance only. Different <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">micing</SPAN></SPAN> techniques are necessary for different types of music and the number of musicians in the room at the time. Also the make up of instruments. A solo acoustic instrument clear up to a full orchestra in a decent hall can frequently be recorded very nicely with a stereo pair. Piano, bass and drums will likely take six or seven <SPAN class=correction id=""><SPAN class=correction id="">mics</SPAN></SPAN>. But knowing what each instrument, or combination of instruments, sounds like in that environment is still the most important place to start.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gee, I must be up to at least a nickel by now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=546303518-06012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>-- Geoff Sykes</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>reggaepass@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 05, 2007 5:21 AM<BR><B>To:</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: electronics replacing pianos?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> ..and the piano seems to be one of the hardest instruments to faithfully reproduce through recording, if not the hardest.  Any thoughts as to why that is?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alan Eder</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BR>-----Original Message-----<BR> <DIV class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_0_23cb784c-b110-42ab-b722-a7fc0803fb09><PRE><TT> What they ultimately proved is that no matter how good the recording and the playback systems, there is always some extra lows and some extra highs and some extra nuance that just plain won't record or playback. I think the same holds true for even the high-end sampled electronic pianos today. They do sound pretty darn good, but they don't really sound real. And I don't think that they will be able to reproduce a real enough sound from an electronic device anytime soon enough for it to effect many of us. </TT></PRE><PRE><TT> -- Geoff Sykes -- Assoc. Los Angeles </TT></PRE></DIV> <DIV class=AOLPromoFooter> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> <A href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target=_blank><B>Check out the new AOL</B></A>. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>