<HTML><BODY> <div>Thanks, Britt.  The elbow job I just finished took around 3 1/2 hours including regulation, lubrication, etc..  4 hours if you count writing up the invoice, greeting customers, talking to the kids, and selecting a CD to listen to while working (one good thing about a non-tuning job is that you can listen to music!).</div> <div> </div> <div>I will suggest the damper flange job at the next go-round or when they start breaking, whichever happens first.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for your input! </div> <div> </div> <div style="CLEAR: both">Dave Stahl<br> <br> Dave Stahl Piano Service<br> 650-224-3560<br> dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net<br> http://dstahlpiano.net/<br> <br> <br> <br> </div> <div> </div>  <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: brittsam@charter.net<br> To: pianotech@ptg.org<br> Sent: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 6:30 PM<br> Subject: RE: Elbow job<br> <br> <STYLE> .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage a { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: none; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: underline; } body { background-color: white; font-family: "Verdana"; font-size: 10pt; border: 0px; } p { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } img.managedImg { width: 0px; height: 0px; } img.placeholder { width: 275px; height: 206px; background: #F4F4F4 center center no-repeat; border: 1px solid #DADAD6 !important; } </STYLE> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_f0c5cef1-34bc-46c0-aaf0-a544a115d840>Dave, <div>    I just installed the action into the piano after replacing the elbows and damper flanges on the bench.  It took me 30 minutes to get in the door, greet the husband that I had not previously met, install the action into the Winter spinet and set lost motion.  On about a dozen notes the hammers were held off of the rest rail and the rest were close or had slightly too much lost motion.  The wooden nuts moved freely and I did not have to use Protek on them.  I then centered the dampers on the strings.  Previously in the shop, after installing the levers back on the action rail with the new flanges I visually aligned them with each other using wire bending pliers.   and tuned the piano to A440.  After tuning I set damper lift from the pedal.  I got lucky and the damper lift from the spoons were all fine and did not need adjusting.  All told it took me 3.75 hours to do all of the above work in the customers home.  My initial service call I introduced myself, sold the job, removed the action and vacuumed out the case, replaced a broken treble string and cleaned the keys.  That took 1.5 hours.  I spent 2 hours replacing elbows and 3 hours replacing damper flanges and 15 minutes or so tightening screws and blowing out the action in the shop.  I also shot all of the flanges with Protek right before installing it.   So total time spent was 10.5 hours including tuning and I charged accordingly.  I'm happy, they are happy, and the little girl has functional piano to practice on.</div> <div><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></div> <div>Britt </div> <div><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Britt,</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Good tips. </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">How much damper wire regulation was involved after the action was back in the piano?  The piano I just worked on had plastic damper flanges, too.  At least the levers are wood.....;-)  I may see if they can fit it into their budget next year, or when the first breakage occurs.</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Dave Stahl</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 16px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana"><br> </div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Dave Stahl Piano Service</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">650-224-3560</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><A href="javascript:parent.ComposeTo('dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net', '');">dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net</A></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"><A href="http://dstahlpiano.net/" target=_blank>http://dstahlpiano.net</A>/</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 16px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana"><br> </div> <div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 16px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana"><br> </div> <div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 16px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana"><br> </div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">-----Original Message-----</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">From: <A href="javascript:parent.ComposeTo('brittsam@charter.net', '');">brittsam@charter.net</A></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">To: <A href="javascript:parent.ComposeTo('pianotech@ptg.org', '');">pianotech@ptg.org</A></SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Sent: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 7:29 PM</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Subject: RE: Elbow job</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 16px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana"><br> </div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">     I just replaced the plastic elbows on a Winter spinet this week.  It took a little less than 2 hours.  I use the Vagias snap on elbows from Pianotek (# EL-S).  I had the action in a cradle on the bench.  I first clamped some vice grip pliers on the wire snug up against the old elbow on note 1.  I squeezed the old elbow with alligator pliers right in the whippen mortise around the center pin and the old elbow crumbled off (on all 88).  Be careful not to damage the mortise.  If the elbows do not break off use end nip pliers.  Holding the wire or vice grips I then broke off or twisted off the old elbow and spun the new one up to the vice grips.  With the Vagais elbows there is no need to repin the whip mortises.  You just snap them on to the old center pin and move on to the next one.  There is no need to remove the whips.  As you work be awa! re of wasted motion, and when removing the vice grips from one wire clamp them onto the next instead of setting them down on the bench.  I do, however, set down the alligator pliers after removing the old elbow from the whip.  This will help speed up the process without having to hurry.  The reason for using the vice grips is so that when you put the action back in the piano the lost motion will be close to where it was before and save time in setting it. </SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">     While you are at it,  call the customer and tell them that it will be cheaper for them to let you go ahead and replace the plastic damper flanges that are frequently on these pianos as well.  I use Pianotek #PW-DF10 standard damper flanges for most.  </SPAN></FONT><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial color=#333333 size=3><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 11px"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">This will save you from breaking one while putting the action back in the piano and do them the service of not having continuous damper problems when they start breaking as well.  It took me 3 hours for this and I would be glad to detail the procedure if anyone was interested.</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">    I hope this helps,</SPAN></FONT></div> <div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 16px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 13px Verdana"><br> </div> <div style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Verdana size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">     Britt West</SPAN></FONT></div> = </div>  <div class="AOLPromoFooter"> <hr style="margin-top:10px;" /> <a href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol" target="_blank"><b>Check out the new AOL</b></a>. 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