<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bottomMargin=7 leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 2/3/2007 9:33:20 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Bruce.Stevens@verizon.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Dale, <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>I agree with Rick's excellent statement: <FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#091eff>In that perspective I often use the <<feel>> of the voice. I know thats a loaded concept... but regardless of the hows and whys... there is definitely a very real sensation of touch to tone.</FONT>  This is something we don't talk about enough.</DIV> <DIV>I learned from our friend Bob Davis and Steve Schell that I want a hammer that passes some sort of a compression test.  As you might recall, Bob demonstrated (you also might have been teaching with him) a device that he could insert a hammer and put the "squeeze" on it.  This should have made a statement for anyone who was in the class.</DIV> <DIV>Steve Schell's version of the compression test was a bit simpler to preformed.  He would take a bass or tenor hammer and put the "bite" on it by putting the shoulders of the hammer between his front teeth feeling the compression with his jaw when he bit down.  We like to call it the "bite test".  (Oh, let me say that the the tongue isn't involved... no germs! ha)  One conclusion is have is: Thin Nasty Tone = Rock Hard Hammer (to the core)!   </DIV> <DIV>So many of the hammers manufactured today do not have any real compression when I give them the "bit test".  Some may say that you need this for power.  Maybe (I don't agree).  There is some point at which the hardness of the hammer core begins to kill the tone.  Steve and I have been saying for a long time: "Hard hammers kill tone".</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>I agree with David Love's post and consider his thoughts to be <B>excellent</B>.  David takes us to the reality of what most technicians do and that is to service and restore pianos that reside in homes and not on the concert stage.  </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>My appreciation to all who are talking about this "delicate" but most important subject.</DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>Bruce Stevens</DIV> <DIV><BR> <DIV> <DIV>On Feb 3, 2007, at 7:59 AM, <A title=mailto:Erwinspiano@aol.com href="mailto:Erwinspiano@aol.com">Erwinspiano@aol.com</A> wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV>More interesting discussion</DIV></FONT> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 37px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: -37px"><B></B><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 37px; TEXT-INDENT: -37px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica; COLOR: #000000" face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=3><B>From: </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>RicB <<A title=mailto:ricb@pianostemmer.no href="mailto:ricb@pianostemmer.no">ricb@pianostemmer.no</A>></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 34px; TEXT-INDENT: -34px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica; COLOR: #000000" face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=3><B>Date: </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>February 3, 2007 2:19:39 AM PST</FONT></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 21px; TEXT-INDENT: -21px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica; COLOR: #000000" face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=3><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3><A title=mailto:pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 50px; TEXT-INDENT: -50px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica; COLOR: #000000" face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=3><B>Subject: </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3><B>Ronsen Bacon felt</B></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 58px; TEXT-INDENT: -58px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica; COLOR: #000000" face=Helvetica color=#000000 size=3><B>Reply-To: </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" face=Helvetica size=3>Pianotech List <<A title=mailto:pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Hi Dale</DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Yes I do remember your D, and quite well.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>I think you and I see piano sound in much the same light when it comes down to it and on the level of voicing we are discussing here, there is rarely any real sacrifice of one tonal aspect over another.... at least not beyond what is reasonable and possible in the real world.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>My point was that even so, and indeed as this discussion illustrates, the best voicers still strive to get more of everything... more beauty and more power... more sustain and more raw attack.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Lets face it... when it comes right down to it we are never in a perfect state of bliss over an instrument... or if we do get there for a fleeting moment, it passes all to quickly.</DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I liked your comments refering to the <<cross over point>> below.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Thats the real beauty of fine voicing class concert level instruments.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>That cross over point becomes actually quite large when you sit back and listen to the instrument played.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>When we start learning voicing it seems, or it did to me at any rate, that that window of good tone was so very small... but listening to some of the pianos voiced by masters of the art these past 10 years or so.... sheeshhh... the palette of good tone is really quite large indeed.... yet at the same time narrow if you get my meaning.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>An instrument must have brilliance of some sort, and it must have beauty of some sort.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>But brilliance and beauty can be many things to many people really.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Perhaps its easier ofte times to describe what is not in the arena of good tone.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">In that perspective I often use the <<feel>> of the voice. I know thats a loaded concept... but regardless of the hows and whys... there is definitely a very real sensation of touch to tone.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Its a very valuable voicing tool IMB.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>When one plays pianisimo... it must not only sound pianisimo, it must feel pianisimo.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>And when one plays brilliant... it must feel powerful and dynamic with a huge array of vibrations zinging back into the fingers.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Nothing worse, despite what sound occurs, then a piano that feels soft when one plays firmly.</DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">As far as voicing from soft hammers upwards. You know these past years I've been approaching the whole thing from the other direction. Mostly because I get the sensation that laqure imparts a bit of its own to the tone... and I've opted away from that for the time being.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>That said... stiffer soundboard systems that perhaps are not quite as massive at the same time....(I assume you meant both ?? ) ...<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Why do you suppose they faded from practice as you say ?<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Is it a material based problem or simply by design ?<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>From the sounds of things tho... there are several over there pursuing that grail :)</DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Cheers</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">RicB</DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>Ric</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>      </SPAN>Ahhh yes, the sticky wicket of defining what "a<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>beautiful tone"</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>really is</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>on the Internet.</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>      </SPAN>However, just to be clearer, hopefully...<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>Anyway in my universe</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>of tone,</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>I wasn't suggesting sacrificing any<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>thing.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>You heard my D in</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>Ra-ch-ster in</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>class.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>(They all sounded dead<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>in the hall).</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>     </SPAN>I know what you are Saying, but the tone I'm describing<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>is</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>probably closer</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>to what you & David Andersen & others are referring<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>to when we</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>say"Warm,clear tone." <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>        </SPAN>There seems to be a cross over point in any<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>voicing situation</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>where the</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>sound is under or over the desired target level<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>of tonal clarity &</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>power & at</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>the point, we just about reach out<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>& touch it, but then pull back &</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>re-evaluate, taking into<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>consideration play in time,(which is</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>largely ignored in most</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>tone building<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>protocols) acoustic environment & customer</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>preference/yours. <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>    </SPAN>When<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>coming at it from the less dense hammer side of things, play</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>in time has</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>    </SPAN>enormous affect on building long term tonal benefits & has hugely <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>    </SPAN>overlooked. The packing affect in the strike zone<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>felt occurs<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>    </SPAN>rather rapidly in as</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>the hammer ,under some hours of tuning & vigorous<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>playing, provides</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>further</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>clarity, power & sustain. You of course know<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>this.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>        </SPAN>However because the historical pendulum of felt<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>production,</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>voicing &</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>hammer making techniques have swung so far to<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>accommodate the</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>instant On</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>(glassy) sounds of stiffer soundboard systems<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>,the fact that rich</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>resonant sound was</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>produced with waaay softer<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>hammers in comparison to todays hot,harder</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>pressed felts .....has been lost<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>& forgotten.</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>     </SPAN>I hope I can contribute to the resurgence in what<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>  </SPAN>musicians know</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>as "The</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>   </SPAN>beautiful sound"</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>     </SPAN>Kindest regards</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>     </SPAN>Dale</DIV> <DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>