<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1586" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; khtml-nbsp-mode: space; khtml-line-break: after-white-space" bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=2>It doesn't matter if I'm sitting across a table from you or reading your email, I like hanging out with you, David A. Don't give your time away, charge for it. I charge by the hour, not the job. If your at $80. per. It's .5 to show plus the time. So, 1 hour is $120. 1.5 is $160, etc. I might not do any tuning at all, or maybe just a half hour of tuning and the rest repair or regulating. Or, maybe nothing but tuning. I tell clients my fee and that most service calls are an hour to 1.5. After that they may want me back again after we gain an understanding of their piano's needs. If you want to give a discount, simply discount your hourly. Your fee should be representative of the value you can provide the client. Or should we just divide the number of hours we would like to work in a week by the amount of money we need? Maybe.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Respectfully submitted ( I hope it's taken that way)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Fenton</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=normajneufeld@shaw.ca href="mailto:normajneufeld@shaw.ca">Norma Neufeld</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 12, 2007 10:24 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Paid for Pitch Raises?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David, I think you may have misunderstood some of my post.  I do <EM>not</EM> give away my expertise or de-value my services in any way.  Quite the contrary actually.  The 'free' things I do for some clients are things they may not even know about like taking up lost motion on an upright for example,  it's quick and easy and makes a big difference.  I explain it needs regulating etc, etc..they may go for it, or not.   All they know is that the piano sounds and feels much better and I'm happy knowing that they will get more enjoyment from their instrument from a few extra minutes of my time.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A few years ago, I did a lot of cheap work for the University as part of my training.  Because of that, I now look after all the uprights in the department<EM> for my regular fee</EM>.  No discount.   That a good steady income that I can count on.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just a couple of examples for you...I agree with your basic principle, but my methodology differs a little.  :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terry,  Thanks for you're kind words....global warming seems to have skipped right over Saskatchewan!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Norma Neufeld</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Saskatoon,SK</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=david@davidandersenpianos.com href="mailto:david@davidandersenpianos.com">David Andersen</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 12, 2007 10:41 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Paid for Pitch Raises?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>comments interspersed, with all due respect and collegiality: <DIV><BR> <DIV> <DIV>On Feb 12, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Norma Neufeld wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">David,  Avery,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">With all due respect, I think it's a little different for those of us who have been in the business only a few years. <BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean you should get less respect, and do work for a client for free, just because you've been in business 5 or 6 years instead of 20 or 25? <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We're trying to build clientele and gain experience.  I have done many pitch raises and other work for less money than I should have received, but in return I gain clients,<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, but when you train clients to underpay you and to expect things for free, they just don't respect you in the same way they would if you valued your time as a professional in any other field would....do you underpay or get freebies from the other service people you deal with, including lawyers, doctors, accountants, mechanics, based on how long they've been in business? <BR> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">knowledge and the opportunity to polish my skills.<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>True. But you pay a bigger price than I think you have to.</DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">  I will </SPAN><EM style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">never</SPAN></EM><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> let myself be taken advantage of <BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>Good. I like the sound of that.<BR> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">but being demanding as a rookie, either with dealers or clients will get you no where. </SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>Depends on what you mean by demanding.  Strength, clarity in communicating, and confidence in valuing yourself are pretty attractive qualities...perhaps a weasel would see that as demanding, if it meant they'd have to pay you more money, but not a good person.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Doing the odd thing for free is really not so bad when you look at it in this light,<BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>I respectfully disagree.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">  and not all dealers are pond scum.....they're just people too. <BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>Absolutely. I have many good friends, people that I love, respect, and trust, that are piano dealers.  I'm a piano dealer.</DIV> <DIV>Come on.  I didn't say all dealers are scum; just some. And they are.<BR> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"It's a give and take world"......"You reap what you sow"....Clich�s perhaps, but true none the less.  I just happen to be in the giving and sewing mode at the moment,  the taking and reaping will come later.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>The trick, my dear, is to do both at the same time.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Norma Neufeld</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Saskatoon, SK</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>hope this helps....DAVID ANDERSEN<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">----- Original Message -----</SPAN></DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 13px arial; font-color: black"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> </SPAN><A title=avery1@houston.rr.com href="mailto:avery1@houston.rr.com"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,238); FONT-FAMILY: arial; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">Avery</SPAN></A><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> </SPAN><A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,238); FONT-FAMILY: arial; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">Pianotech List</SPAN></A><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> Monday, February 12, 2007 3:06 PM</SPAN></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> Re: Paid for Pitch Raises?</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3>David,<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>I totally agree!<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>Avery Todd<BR><BR>At 12:12 PM 2/12/2007, you wrote:<BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=3><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">Daniel---please don't take this personally, brother, but you've triggered off a rant.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">What the HELL are you people doing----working without getting paid? That's insane.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">You really need to check your approach to life, IMO, if you submit to this kind of bullshit.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">Raising the pitch on a piano takes WORK---intense work, between 20 and 40 minutes, if done right. To not get paid for that, or to work for people who don't intend to pay you for that, is dysfunctional. Period. What are you thinking about? Would you ever ask any other kind of service tech to come to your house or business and work for 20-40 minutes FOR FREE?</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">Never. NEVER.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">Wake up. WAKE UP. You need to start valuing your time, your life, and your skills.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">Stand up for yourself, and tell that a**h**le who owns that  store to sell you a piano for his cost.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">See what he says. Wake up.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">Until we demand respect and acknowledgement for our immense knowledge and skillset we'll be treated like field hands, or dismissable underlings, or naive idiots, or pathetic losers.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">There. I feel better now.</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)">David Andersen</SPAN><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"><BR style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,221)"></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV> <P> <HR> <P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.35/680 - Release Date: 2/10/07 9:15 PM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>