<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Conrad,<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>More on this mystery; a very experienced older technician at Steinway London told me today (when I mentioned this piano) that when Hamburg initially manufactured the M-sized instrument it was known as the "small O", and that only later did they designate it as the M. So it was labeled the "O 170" instead of "M 170" on our pianos.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>This would seem more plausible to me than that the plate was actually miscast (and continued to be for a certain amount of time)...so I pass it on for what it's worth. Perhaps there are other European tuners to whom this is a familiar model they nave encountered. Patrick knew immediately what I was describing, so I'm assuming that he probably knows whereof he speaks.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The plate on my piano also has a small M towards the back of the plate, like yours (mine says M1, though). I don't know whether that relates to the model M designation on the NY or not?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Allen Wright, RPT</DIV><DIV>London, UK</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On 9 Feb 2007, at 11:35, Conrad Hoffsommer wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">At 10:52 PM 2/8/2007 +0000, you wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">While we're on the subject of plates: I showed this on the Piano Forum list, but thought I'd throw it into the mix here for more feedback. Below is a Hamburg Model M ca. 1927 in our shop on which (according to feedback from the Hamburg factory) the plate was miscast "O 170" instead of (as it should read) "M 170". The factory had apparently heard of this before. It's 5' 7" or 170 cm, so most definitely an M.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Would the model and length designation would be a separate part of the pattern in the moulding process? Or is a plate pattern simply two large plate-sized pieces, top and bottom? (I don't know much about the mechanics of plate casting). I would assume that a certain number of plates like this one were produced before the goof was noticed and the pattern re-carved.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'm curious if anyone has ever seen a plate casting flaw as fundamental as this on a NY Steinway (or any other model, for that matter)? Imagine what the piano might be worth if it were a coin or a stamp<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>: ) It's hard to imagine there would be a lot of these kinds of plate anomalies floating around - plates seem like something so carved in, well... iron!</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sorting out the mystery of this contradictory and confusing plate designation has made me more curious about plate casting in general. Any observations or insights are welcome.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Allen Wright, RPT</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">London, UK</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I said:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'll check for the exact configuration tomorrow when I get to school, but I think we have one of these Hamburgers here.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>It has "O" 170 in the triangle, but i think that it also has an "M" cast into the plate at the horn.(pointy end)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Yes, 170cm is the size.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Conrad Hoffsommer</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The one here is serial #249150. Real close to yours, and here is the designation cast into the plate at the far end.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Somewhere along the line they _did_ get the "M" on the plate, just not where you can see it w/o opening the lid.(with necessary removal of pictures/music/lamp, etc.)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; min-height: 14.0px"><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN><SPAN><DIV><MVC-014S.JPG></DIV></SPAN><BR></P><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Conrad Hoffsommer - Keyboard Technician</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Luther College, 700 College Dr., Decorah, Iowa 52101-1045</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1-(563)-387-1204 // Fax 1-(563)-387-1076</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- Right now, I'm hoping to live until my age matches my golf score,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- Until then, I'll have to be content to have my IQ match my handicap.</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> <BR></DIV><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Allen Wright</DIV><DIV>6 Clay Court, 219 Long Lane</DIV><DIV>London SE1 4PB</DIV><DIV>United Kingdom</DIV><DIV>020 7378 8265 </DIV><DIV>0780-688-1325 (mobile)</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>