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<DIV><FONT size=2>Hey Dave,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I'm going to try that, a beat low or so. I'm always
learning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Fenton</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=david@davidandersenpianos.com
href="mailto:david@davidandersenpianos.com">David Andersen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: etds and ears</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hey, kids---I do a pitch raise aurally, exactly like I do a tuning, but
quicker, with about a 1/3 overpull, less or more depending on the piano and
the situation; I, like Fenton, spend a little more time on the temperament (my
order is temperament, then down to the bottom, then up to the top from F#4;)
it just makes it more bearable and pleasant as I speed through. I like a pitch
raise; it's more money, and I like to challenge myself to leave the piano
ready for fine tuning at .5-1.5 cents low: my favorite tuning platform. Takes
me 25 or 30 minutes. I usually charge $75.00.....</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>David Andersen</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 18, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Fenton Murray wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">No
challenge felt here, I'm honored to be asked.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">I'd
probably agree with most of what JF has said below. It is a feel thing based
on roughly a 1/3 over pull on my first note A440. >From there I usually
tune single strings everywhere but the bass. A couple extra beats going into
the tenor break, then backing off into the treble. I save the bass for last,
after pulling up the unison elsewhere, I simply don't want to break bass
strings. Every piano is different and you get to know how they will behave.
Old rusty Chickerings are not going to be yanked up 1/3 over when they are
100 c flat. Common sense there. Suesan Graham wrote 15 or 20 years ago that
the further flat the piano is the faster she tunes, as things get closer,
slow down and be more careful. Sometimes I am absolutely right on after a 20
minute pass from 100 cents flat, other times the treble is still down. If
things aren't behaving properly one should be looking at things like pin
block fit or bridge problems. I like to spend a bit of time on the
temperment even on pitch raises because I want to start creating that
foundation right away. I enjoy the challenge of pitch raises. It's kind of
like archery.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">Fenton</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">----- Original Message
-----</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 13px arial; font-color: black"><B
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">
</SPAN><A title=formsma@gmail.com href="mailto:formsma@gmail.com"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,238); FONT-FAMILY: arial; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">John
Formsma</SPAN></A><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><B
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">
</SPAN><A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,238); FONT-FAMILY: arial; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">Pianotech
List</SPAN></A><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><B
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">
Friday, February 16, 2007 6:55 PM</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 13px arial"><B
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial"> Re:
etds and ears</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>John,<BR><BR>I'm assuming you mean a pitch
"raise."<BR><BR>I haven't done any personal studies on it, but I accept
the fact that one will get a more accurate and stable pitch raise by
tuning unisons as he goes, from the bottom up. I think Dr. Sanderson
proved this many years ago, and my time with the Verituner confirmed this
to me.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>As a strictly
aural tuner now, though, I don't have a choice except to tune from the
middle outward, unless it's a "blind" pitch raise, which I personally
never got the hang of. The way you get the right overpull is to do pitch
raises enough that you know sort of what to expect. It becomes less of a
guessing game and more of a "feel" thing. You could think of it as knowing
how many beats sharp to tune it. As you learn through experience, you will
find certain types of pianos behaving more predictably. I generally set A4
1/3 more than it is flat; e.g., if it's -10¢, I'll set it to +3¢.<BR><BR>I
use strip mutes in the whole piano, "Dan Levitan style." It takes about 15
minutes for a pitch raise. It is generally not as accurate as an ETD, but
I have had occasions that many strings were as close as an ETD could get
in a first-pass pitch raise.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>There is probably lots of
stuff in the archives. Good luck searching for it!<BR><BR>JF<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I
would like to know from Fenton and from others how<BR>they manage a
pitch range aurally. I've often thought of going completely
to<BR>aural tuning but am worried about how exactly to estimate
overpull, and make<BR>it as efficient and close as my SAT does in one
pass when in pitch range mode.<BR>I've also heard that it's a preferred
method to go from bottom to top,<BR>unisons as you go, when
raising/correcting pitch. I'd love to hear aural<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>tuners' takes on
this. (Understand I'm sincerely curious and NOT
challenging<BR>anybody)</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR
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