<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>The fact that he did not get defensive tells me that he is open to learning more. He is probably, for lack of alternative resources, simply sharing what he has been taught by people that he respects and has no reason to question. Sometimes that may even be the manufacturers literature. It's how most without resources like the pianotech listserver, and PTG, get their "facts".  The fact that I am a tech and he is not earns my opinion some respect in his eyes. But since I don't know either, (which is why I'm here), and since we both want to learn more, where would you suggest he and I go to learn more about the facts of hammer construction? Is there a web site that has this kind of information?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-- Geoff Sykes</DIV> <DIV>-- Assoc. Los Angeles </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jurgen Goering Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:47 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: A question about hammer construction </DIV>It sounds like the salesman showing his ignorance to his clients, but of course they couldn't tell. Just about everything he says is pretty much wrong. Hammers without underfelt are not necessarily softer, cheaper, lower quality, shorter lasting, and they are by no means indicative of the quality of the instrument. Today, most bottom-of-the-barrel pianos have hammers with underfelt. Although hammers without underfelt are not found in many pianos made today , in the past there were many fantastic instruments that had single layer felt hammers. I am thinking about older Bechsteins, Blüthners, etc. The presence of an underfelt and its characteristics flow into hammer performance just as the size, shape, and wood species used in the molding do. Hammer felt making is a world unto itself, and the processes of manufacturing that felt into hammers are precise, complex and varied. I think everyone would be better served if piano sales people like the one in question were more knowledgeable about the instruments they are selling. Simplifying things for the average client is fine, but one has to at least start and end up with facts. It doesn't sound like one could learn much about pianos (or hammers at least) by talking to this salesman. <?smaller>Jurgen Goering Piano Forte Supply (250) 754-2440 info@pianofortesupply.com http://www.pianofortesupply.com <?/smaller> On Mar 16, 2007, at 22:02, Geoff Sykes wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>This afternoon, after store hours, I asked a salesman at the store I work at one day a week about the way he describes hammer construction and performance to his customers. Basically he is telling customers that the colored section next to the wood is a second layer that makes the hammer harder, (or whatever), and that the multiple layered hammers perform better, last longer and are subsequently more expensive and therefore only found on pianos that cost a little more. Single layer hammers, (solid white), on the other hand, are softer, don't perform as well and wear out quicker.<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>   <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>I shared with him that I seem to remember "learning" somewhere that the colored section was, functionally, simply that. A colored section. That the coloring of that section was used to identify hammers made to certain specifications and/or for certain buyers. Also, that hammers with that colored layer were only found in pianos whose manufacturers went to the trouble to actually define those characteristics to the hammer manufacturer.<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>   <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>The fact that the colored layer hammers are only found in the slightly more expensive better made pianos is a given. As is the fact that the colored layer also usually indicates a higher quality hammer. My conversation with this salesman was not an argument. I was just curious and was hoping to learn something. But at the end of our conversation we both had the same questions:<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>   <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>: Is that colored section actually a second layer? (We could not tell by feeling it.)<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>: Is that colored section, or second layer, actually functionally different than the rest of the hammer?<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>: In other words, does it actually do more than merely act as an identifier for the characteristics of that hammer?<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>   <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><?x-tad-smaller>The way he describes hammers to the customer probably doesn't require change. Simplifying things for the average customer is not necessarily a bad thing. We just want to know for ourselves.<?/x-tad-smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>