<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16441" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US id=role_body bottomMargin=7 vLink=blue link=blue bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>David,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well, I wouldn't agree going that far, because I used the technique on a lot of Kawai grands from 1985-1990 (per the instructions of a Kawai consultant at the time).  The tone quality/voicing of those pianos has held up remarkably well throughout the years.  The method I used made opening up the sustain easier--not requiring as much needling.   Of course, they still require shaping and some crown work, but they are incredibly easy to work with.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Barbara Richmond, RPT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>near Peoria, IL</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=davidlovepianos@comcast.net href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">David Love</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 04, 2007 12:34 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: kneading hammers</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Any set of hammers that needs pliers for voicing ought to be replaced.  </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">David Love<BR><A href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</A><BR><A href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><A href="mailto:Erwinspiano@aol.com">Erwinspiano@aol.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, June 04, 2007 6:42 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: kneading hammers</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <EM><B><I><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Hi Rupert</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><EM><B><I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">  I have done my share of this in the past but </SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><EM><B><I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=4><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">never</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><EM><B><I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> on a real quality set of hammer.  It is in my Opinion, that this is a technique reserved for poorly made/ or petrified felt type hammers.  I consider it the last final act of voicing desperation.  Also on some pianos it makes a change for the better in a short amount of time & my ears don't hurt so much. i.e. spinets, over heated & shrunken hammers or over juiced.  The muted sound you mention comes from using pliers too far up on the hammer which cups the crown rendering the strike surface un level.</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><EM><B><I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">  It also may be just the  pre voicing on some hammers need so that one can actually finish up & refine the job with some needling.  All hammer voicing manipulations are redistributing the densities of the hammer thereby by moving the felt fibers thus making them more ...or less....linear in there ability to produce tonal spectrum.</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><EM><B><I><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">  Dale</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My original query cited Howe's book, which turns out<BR>to be the Revised 3rd edition of 1963 (not 1948 when<BR>it was first published - sorry about that).<BR><BR>On p.61 he says:<BR>   "Another method of softening the hammers has proved<BR>   satisfactory: Take a pair of gas-pliers and squeeze<BR>   the felt in both directions alternately: in other <BR>   words, knead it with the pliers".<BR><BR>So far this idea of alternate directions has not been<BR>mentioned by contributors.<BR><BR>( The idea that the tone can also be strengthened is<BR>intriguing me (see below).  Seeing most contributors<BR>have said avoid squeezing the tip, it would seem that<BR>they would have strengthened the tone rather than<BR>mellow it by squeezing elsewhere.  Most contributors <BR>have said squeezing is like a lot of needling - which<BR>always softens does it not? )<BR><BR>I am now very interested in what exactly happens to<BR>the<BR>fibers of felt when it is needled / squeezed.<BR><BR>I did do a gentle lateral pliers squeezing on my old<BR>Bluthner upright, and have done no permanent damage:<BR>in fact, after a few weeks playing it sounds much<BR>better to me, although it was a bit muffled<BR>immediately afterwards.  Further experiments will be<BR>confined to my wife's spinnette!<BR><BR><BR>Rupert</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">See what's free at <A title=http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503 href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503" target=_blank>AOL.com</A>. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>