<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD> <STYLE type=text/css></STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3086" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <DIV>Greg,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hate to suggest such a severe potential explanation for this "damper" problem, but I have seen it before in Baldwin vertical pianos from the 60's.  On the surface it seems totally unrelated, but a crack in the plate bar between the tenor and treble section, just behind the main action rail can actually force the action away from the strings.  The first, most obvious symptom is poor damper performance, but the problem is hugely more serious than that.  I hope it turn out to be a simpler issue for you, and I don't wish to put you in panic mode.... but, check out the integrity of the plate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Frank Emerson</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=welltemperedtuning@yahoo.com href="mailto:welltemperedtuning@yahoo.com">Geoffrey Arnold</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 6/12/2007 6:38:37 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Client Care and Spinnet Dampers: HELP!</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> <DIV><BR>Hi All,<BR><BR>Well it's deja vu for me. I thought I'd learned my lesson the last time this happened. I get a call for a tuning and "pedal repair". When I arrive the damper pedal rod is engaged but the pedal regulated with so much play as never to reach damper lift. Easy fix, regulate pedal, achieve damper lift. I then suddenly notice copious bleedthrough. I point out the "echo" to the customer and say the dampers are old and misaligned, and another technician must have sacrificed pedal play for quieting the bleedthrough. I would leave it with pedal play, but if the "echo" bothered her I would come back free of charge and try to minimize it.<BR><BR>She does call, and I do return. This time I back the pedal all the way to where it was when I first met the piano. At this point I have not touched a single damper head, or damper wire. The damper lift rod is miles from any damper lever, so all dampers are seated.And still the massive echo. I neglected to play the piano before regulating the pedal on my very first visit, so I don't recall if it had the bleedthrough then. But intellectually I know, tuning the piano as I did, and pedal regulation could not have caused this pervasive damper bleeding. I try to delicately approach the issue, essentially inquiring "are you sure this echo wasn't there before"... "no, I DEFINITELY would have noticed it, I can't even play it" and the implied "what did you do to my piano!".... <BR>The one previous time I reached this kind of exchange I stubbornly stuck to my intellectual conclusion that anything I could have done during tuning would not have affected the dampers this much, and if the client wants to remedy the ailing dampers I would be happy to help but they'll have to pay for it. Now I am hopefully a little wiser, and would like to keep my customers so I said "don't worry, this is my problem not yours, I'm not done here until the problem is fixed..."<BR><BR>Three hours later (of second visit to house), every damper is seated. When I push each string, the damper follow s, showing me that it is bearing against the string, and there is sufficient tension if the damper head follows. I strengthened each damper spring in the bass and low tenor for good measure, requiring that I remove the spinnet action, which is so much fun. I even tried needling a few offensive dampers. This is a Baldwin Spinnet from the 60s. The dampers are a little compacted, but nothing spilled on them, and not too hard or ratty. The real killer is that with a slow chromatic check, no single note rings noticeably (play a note, press hand against string, no change in echo). Laying a forearm across all the strings in tenor does not change the echo. Nor a forearm across bass, unless you really push, and then the echo does die. This for me is to assess if it is indeed string noise, or soundboard/backscale noise, but its so loud it must be string noise. If I play a forte f-major in the tenor, and arm mute it, the echo sings loud. If I play same chord and arm mute the bass, lower than the notes I played, it does significantly dampen the echo. This is why I focused primarily on bass dampers. One or two of which I found mildly offensive, but all at least dampen adequately.<BR><BR>I would like advice on good upright damping. But also on this customer quandary, when you reach a juncture where you as the technician feel certain the piano has a chronic ailment that predated your ever meeting it, and the client feeling you caused categorical damper failure just by tuning. Of course now, I have removed the action, and replaced it, and bent many damper wires, so now my actions really could have "caused" or at least worsened the problem (although I did so methodically and with the intention of improving the symptoms) I can no longer say, I never touched the dampers, not my fault. How much free time to I give here, for a happy customer? How does one establish professional expertise and trust, without saying "its not my fault, so not my problem"?<BR><BR><BR>Thank you tuner support group!<BR><BR>Greg Arnold<BR><SPAN><A href="htt p://www.welltemperedtuning.com" target=_blank>www.welltemperedtuning.com</A></SPAN><BR></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR SIZE=1> Looking for a deal? <A href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47094/*http://farechase.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFicDJoNDllBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwMxMwRzZWMDZ3JvdXBzBHNsawNlbWFpbC1uY20-">Find great prices on flights and hotels</A> with Yahoo! FareChase.</FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>