<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Thanks all for the advice.  It will be used.  Dean the piano was not new.  It was a used Wurlitzer console and had not been tuned in a long while.  I am sure my techniques are not perfect yet.  I am working on that.  However, the high treble was where the flat was coming in not the whole piano.  I do appreciate the doing it right - eating some of the cost and gaining a loyal customer who recommends me suggestion.  I will remember that.  I really need to improve on my repair skills and diagnosis.  When might a lubricant i.e. protech be used vs. re=pining?  Would your advice for the key culprit be any different knowing the piano was used?  Again Thanks</P> <P>Steven<BR><BR><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>pianotech-request@ptg.org</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Pianotech Digest, Vol 1289, Issue 93</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:08:20 -0600</I><BR>>Send Pianotech mailing list submissions to<BR>> pianotech@ptg.org<BR>><BR>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives<BR>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> pianotech-request@ptg.org<BR>><BR>>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> pianotech-owner@ptg.org<BR>><BR>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..."<BR> <P>>Today's Topics:<BR>><BR>> 1. Re: Board finish (Farrell)<BR>> 2. Re: Lacquer versus varnish on Steinways (A440A@aol.com)<BR>> 3. Re: Lacquer versus varnish on Steinways (BobDavis88@aol.com)<BR>> 4. Offl list (Erwinspiano@aol.com)<BR>> 5. Re: Offl list (Erwinspiano@aol.com)<BR>> 6. Wanting to do it right (Steven Hopp)<BR>> 7. Re: Wanting to do it right (John Ross)<BR>> 8. Re: Wanting to do it right (Dave Davis)<BR>> 9. Re: Wanting to do it right (ITUNEPIANO@aol.com)<BR>> 10. Re: Lacquer versus varnish on Steinways (Mark Potter)<BR>> 11. RE: steamer (Annie Grieshop)<BR>> 12. RE: Wanting to do it right (Dean May)<BR> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>"Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>"Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Board finish</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:25:40 -0400</I><BR>>With the exception of a museum restoration or any other rebuilding <BR>>effort whose goal was to reproduce the original (and there are very <BR>>few of these that I am aware of), I would ask what is the issue? I <BR>>mean, why would the question be asked (except out of ignorance or <BR>>someone trying to achieve a critical understanding of the pianos <BR>>construction characteristics as they relate to performance)?<BR>><BR>>Terry Farrell<BR>><BR>>----- Original Message ----- SNIP<BR>>>This looks like the same thread about what can you change compared <BR>>>to original design until you end up with something else than <BR>>>original authority<BR>>><BR>>>Stéphane Collin.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>A440A@aol.com</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Lacquer versus varnish on Steinways</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:28:34 EDT</I><BR>>David writes:<BR>><BR>><< What is the history of Steinway using lacquer versus varnish for their<BR>>finishes? >><BR>><BR>>Seems like Varnish was the finish of choice up until around WW II.<BR>>Who knows when they started putting lacquer in hammers?<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Ed Foote RPT<BR>>http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html<BR>>www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html<BR>> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> Get a sneak peek of<BR>>the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour</HTML><BR>><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>BobDavis88@aol.com</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Lacquer versus varnish on Steinways</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:05:02 EDT</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:30:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, A440A@aol.com writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT face=Arial>Seems like Varnish was the finish of choice up until around WW II.  <BR>Who knows when they started putting lacquer in hammers?  </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">We do refinishing, and start seeing lacquer in the mid twenties. I can't remember offhand when varnish replaced shellac, but I think it was in the late 1890's or early '90's. Don't quote me on that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Bob Davis</FONT></DIV><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>Erwinspiano@aol.com</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Offl list</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:21:25 EDT</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV><STRONG><EM>:</EM></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3><STRONG><EM>Gordon</EM></STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG><EM>  How far would I need to travel to experience these remade board.  I still have one or two to try out.</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG><EM>  Dale</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>I know some dedicated, experienced rebuilders who will<BR>have nothing to do with this list, specifically<BR>because of the mockery they would endure; citing you. <BR>One has re-crowned dozens of boards, starting off<BR>flat, and ending up with as much as a half inch crown.<BR>He claims,  and I believe him, that they produce a <BR>warm, rich, wonderful sound. I am learning to emulate<BR>his techniques, but feel no need to share them: for<BR>the ridicule you would heap on me.<BR>     I heard wonderful things about your piano at the<BR>Rebuilder's Gallery, and have no doubt that you are a <BR>master at building new boards. Congratulations.<BR>     Now, if you would please show as much bigness of<BR>character as the bigness of sound your instruments<BR>allegedly produce, and stop ridiculing those who seek,<BR>for whatever reasons, other solutions, I would<BR>consider you a far more successful human being. <BR><BR>     Which is vastly more important. <BR><BR>     Peace,<BR>     Gordon</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>Erwinspiano@aol.com</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Offl list</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:22:34 EDT</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV> <DIV>  <STRONG><EM>Sorry. was meant to be ...off list</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>  Dale</EM></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3><STRONG><EM>Gordon</EM></STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG><EM>  How far would I need to travel to experience these remade board.  I still have one or two to try out.</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG><EM>  Dale</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>"Steven Hopp" <hoppsmusic@hotmail.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Wanting to do it right</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:54:17 +0000</I><BR><BR> <DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Hello all,</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>I guess I am writing this as a vent rather than a request.  I work for a well known piano dealer in my area who's business has been around for over 30 years.  I do some warranty tunings and some repair.  The owner has been like gold to me.  Helping me whenever he can.  Allowing me to work on my own projects in his shop.  Of course he gets floor and warranty tunings at a discount so it is very win win.  However,  when it comes to some things he wants me to cut corners.  For example, I just did a warranty tuning for a piano he delivered and it was 100 cents flat.  I pulled it up to pitch and did two tunings that day and plan to do go work on it again as it is already going flat.  Typical for such a piano.  However, he wanted me to leave it flat and just do a "touch up" on the tuning.  Also several of the high treble hammers and one of the bass hammers were sluggish and need some attention.  I couldn't give it at that time but he now says just spray it with some WD-40 and it will be fine.  There are other things that he wants me to do that I just won't do.  I need this association but how do you tell the guy you won't do some things and still get paid?  If I had left the piano flat and the lady eventually called another tuner for whatever reason - I would look like the moron not him.  Just a note in my life.  Any thoughts and or empathy are welcome.  </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Steven</DIV></DIV><BR clear=all> <HR> <A href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2728??PS=47575">Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! </A> <BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>John Ross <jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Wanting to do it right</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:34:49 -0300</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator> <STYLE> </STYLE> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Definitely do NOT use WD40.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>John M. Ross<BR>Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada<BR><A href="mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca">jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=hoppsmusic@hotmail.com href="mailto:hoppsmusic@hotmail.com">Steven Hopp</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:54 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Wanting to do it right</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Hello all,</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>I guess I am writing this as a vent rather than a request.  I work for a well known piano dealer in my area who's business has been around for over 30 years.  I do some warranty tunings and some repair.  The owner has been like gold to me.  Helping me whenever he can.  Allowing me to work on my own projects in his shop.  Of course he gets floor and warranty tunings at a discount so it is very win win.  However,  when it comes to some things he wants me to cut corners.  For example, I just did a warranty tuning for a piano he delivered and it was 100 cents flat.  I pulled it up to pitch and did two tunings that day and plan to do go work on it again as it is already going flat.  Typical for such a piano.  However, he wanted me to leave it flat and just do a "touch up" on the tuning.  Also several of the high treble hammers and one of the bass hammers were sluggish and need some attention.  I couldn't give it at that time but he now says just spray it with some WD-40 and it will be fine.  There are other things that he wants me to do that I just won't do.  I need this association but how do you tell the guy you won't do some things and still get paid?  If I had left the piano flat and the lady eventually called another tuner for whatever reason - I would look like the moron not him.  Just a note in my life.  Any thoughts and or empathy are welcome.  </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Steven</DIV></DIV><BR clear=all> <HR> <A href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2728??PS=47575">Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! </A> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>Dave Davis <dave@davispiano.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Wanting to do it right</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:29:41 -0700 (PDT)</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator> <STYLE> DIV {margin:0px;} </STYLE> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Steven,</DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Don't use WD-40 on a piano action.</DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The last line from your letter pretty much sums it up. You're the one that looks bad to the customer, the next technician, and most of all, to yourself. You give good reasons for doing it right. I think most of us have come across situations like this, and sincerely expressing your desire to do honest and respectful work is a good place to start. If the dealer doesn't want any part of it, you'll have to make the decision whether to sleep at night, or lay awake wondering what effect WD-40, tuning the piano flat, etc. will have on people's lives.</DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Best regards,</DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Dave Davis, RPT<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Steven Hopp <hoppsmusic@hotmail.com><BR>To: pianotech@ptg.org<BR>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:54:17 PM<BR>Subject: Wanting to do it right<BR><BR> <DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Hello all,</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>I guess I am writing this as a vent rather than a request.  I work for a well known piano dealer in my area who's business has been around for over 30 years.  I do some warranty tunings and some repair.  The owner has been like gold to me.  Helping me whenever he can.  Allowing me to work on my own projects in his shop.  Of course he gets floor and warranty tunings at a discount so it is very win win.  However,  when it comes to some things he wants me to cut corners.  For example, I just did a warranty tuning for a piano he delivered and it was 100 cents flat.  I pulled it up to pitch and did two tunings that day and plan to do go work on it again as it is already going flat.  Typical for such a piano.  However, he wanted me to leave it flat and just do a "touch up" on the tuning.  Also several of the high treble hammers and one of the bass hammers were sluggish and need some attention.  I couldn't give it at that time but he now says just spray it with some WD-40 and it will be fine.  There are other things that he wants me to do that I just won't do.  I need this association but how do you tell the guy you won't do some things and still get paid?  If I had left the piano flat and the lady eventually called another tuner for whatever reason - I would look like the moron not him.  Just a note in my life.  Any thoughts and or empathy are welcome.  </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Steven</DIV></DIV><BR clear=all><SPAN style="MARGIN: 8px 0px; OVERFLOW: hidden; WIDTH: 100%; HEIGHT: 2px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: black"></SPAN><A href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2728??PS=47575" rel=nofollow>Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! </A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR></DIV></DIV><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>ITUNEPIANO@aol.com</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>pianotech@ptg.org</I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Wanting to do it right</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:54:18 EDT</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV>Hey Steven.  Stores are slow right now and cutting service costs.  Not a new thing.   Here's my story - A month after starting at  a store, I realized the store was selling 2 or 3 pre-paid tunings with each piano sold.  Worse yet, the store was giving customers a hard time when they would call to schedule  the pre-paid warranty tunings.  Customers would complain to me they had to call 1/2 dozen times before the store finally sent me out to tune their piano.   Customers would leave messages that were not returned, customers were told a tech would call them, and no one gave me the tunings.  One complaint after another, too many to be just errors on the store's part.  The store grossed an extra $150,000 per year selling these pre-paid tunings, and was doing all that it could to get out of tuning the customers pianos. They wanted to pocket the money.    People continue to call me for their 2nd or 3rd pre-paid tuning, and I've been billing  the store, although I haven't taken new customers for a year now.  Recently the store has been slow to pay my bill, and I've put them on credit hold till they pay up.  Customers are being told the store hasn't paid me, so I can't tune their piano.  Crappy situation for me and them.  Some stores just plain suck.   </DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>Mark Potter <bases-loaded76@sbcglobal.net></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Lacquer versus varnish on Steinways</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)</I><BR><BR><B><I><A href="mailto:BobDavis88@aol.com">BobDavis88@aol.com</A></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">We do refinishing, and start seeing lacquer in the mid twenties. I can't remember offhand when varnish replaced shellac, but I think it was in the late 1890's or early '90's. Don't quote me on that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Bob Davis</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">I concur with Bob, with the same caveat.  Certainly, I have not seen varnish on practically ANY piano manufactured after 1930, and I have stripped countless pianos from that period.  Also, I don't believe I have ever encountered shellac on pianos post-1890 or so.  </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Talking original finish, of course...</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">Mark Potter</FONT></STRONG></DIV><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get a sneak peek of the all-new <A title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982">AOL.com</A>.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>"Annie Grieshop" <annie@allthingspiano.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>annie@allthingspiano.com, Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>"Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>RE: steamer</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:44:41 -0500</I><BR>>Search eBay for terms such as "garment steamer" or "clothes steamer".<BR>>You'll get lots of extraneous garbage, but you'll also find a number of<BR>>hand-held and other small steamers that should do the trick. I got mine on<BR>>eBay for something like $40, inc. shipping.<BR>><BR>>Annie Grieshop<BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On<BR>>Behalf Of reggaepass@aol.com<BR>> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:39 AM<BR>> To: pianotech@ptg.org<BR>> Subject: steamer<BR>><BR>><BR>> Hi List,<BR>><BR>><BR>> I would like to use steam on an upcoming key bushing job, but have not<BR>>been able to find any of the handy devices my colleagues have online. Any<BR>>suggestions for an off-the-shelf, hold-it-in-your-hand gizmo capable of<BR>>producing a fine, steady stream of steam?<BR>><BR>> Thanks,<BR>><BR>> Alan Eder<BR>><BR>> P. S. This is a second attempt to send this to the list Apologies if<BR>>redundancy occurs.<BR>><BR>> ae<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> <P>>------=_NextPart_000_01D6_01C7C974.1587D040<BR>>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>> charset="US-ASCII"<BR>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR>><BR>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><BR>><HTML><HEAD><BR>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =<BR>>charset=3Dus-ascii"><BR>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16481" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD><BR>><BODY><BR>><DIV><SPAN class=3D343314300-19072007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =<BR>>color=3D#0000ff=20<BR>>size=3D2>Search eBay for terms such as "garment steamer" or "clothes=20<BR>>steamer".&nbsp; You'll get lots of extraneous garbage, but you'll also =<BR>>find a=20<BR>>number of hand-held and other small steamers that should do the =<BR>>trick.&nbsp; I=20<BR>>got mine on eBay for something like $40, inc. =<BR>>shipping.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>><DIV><SPAN class=3D343314300-19072007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =<BR>>color=3D#0000ff=20<BR>>size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>><DIV><SPAN class=3D343314300-19072007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =<BR>>color=3D#0000ff=20<BR>>size=3D2>Annie Grieshop</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20<BR>>style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =<BR>>solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =<BR>>face=3DTahoma=20<BR>> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =<BR>>pianotech-bounces@ptg.org=20<BR>> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<B>On Behalf Of=20<BR>> </B>reggaepass@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:39=20<BR>> AM<BR><B>To:</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20<BR>> steamer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>> <DIV><BR>> <DIV>Hi List,<BR></DIV><BR>I would like to use steam on an upcoming =<BR>>key=20<BR>> bushing job, but have not been able to find any of the handy devices =<BR>>my=20<BR>> colleagues have online.&nbsp; Any suggestions for an off-the-shelf,=20<BR>> hold-it-in-your-hand gizmo capable of producing a fine, steady stream =<BR>>of=20<BR>> steam?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Alan Eder<BR><BR>P. S. This is a second =<BR>>attempt=20<BR>> to send this to the list&nbsp; Apologies if redundancy=20<BR>> occurs.<BR><BR>ae<BR></DIV><BR>> <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR>> <DIV id=3DAOLMsgPart_4_aa4934a6-e017-4986-90af-4a4e8f875414><FONT=20<BR>> id=3Drole_document face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>> <DIV></DIV><BR>> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT><BR><BR></DIV><BR>> <DIV class=3DAOLPromoFooter><BR>> <HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px"><BR>> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free =<BR>>from=20<BR>> AOL at <A href=3D"http://www.aol.com?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000437"=20<BR>> =<BR>>target=3D_blank><B>AOL.com</B></A>.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><BR>><BR>>------=_NextPart_000_01D6_01C7C974.1587D040--<BR>><BR>><BR> <P> <P> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>"Dean May" <deanmay@pianorebuilders.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>To: <I>"'Pianotech List'" <pianotech@ptg.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>RE: Wanting to do it right</I><BR>Date: <I>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:09:48 -0400</I><BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Well, you aren't really that stuck. Any tech working for a dealer has to walk the balancing act you are facing. The dealer (speaking as a former dealer myself) is obviously concerned with maximizing his profit. His overhead and expenses are  huge. You need to do everything in your power to assist him towards that end. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Speaking also as a tech who used to work for a dealer doing what you are doing, I know many times I would have to "eat" work just to make things come out all right for the customer and the dealer. If I did $40-$80 worth of extra, I could usually slip an extra $10-25 charge onto the dealer's bill without asking permission. Just note on the invoice the time it took, your regular rate,  and the dealer's maximum discounted rate. Explain that the work had to be done. You get a little money for your efforts and the pill isn't quite as bitter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It sounds like there are some things you could do differently to alleviate your stress. First, you obviously don't have to use WD40. Use Goose Juice or Protek instead. If you need to repin, just do it. Once you get good it doesn't take that long. You have to isolate the components giving you the excess friction. Likely the problem is in the keys. Carefully fit the keys. Make sure the balance rail mortise is cut deep enough. Ease the balance rail hole enough so that the key drops on the pin. Make sure there isn't excess drag on the bushings. Then use a pipe cleaner and coat the bushings with teflon powder. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Second, I can't imagine how you can tune a new piano twice and it still be going flat. You need to examine your pitch raising techniques and make some changes. Reyburn CyberTuner would be a huge help here. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=314255122-18072007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Then accept the fact that you might have to do some work and not get paid.  Think of it as a cost of doing business. How much would you pay to get one new customer that will have their piano tuned every 6 months for the next 20 years, and tell 10 of their friends about you? </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 22pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Bradley Hand ITC'">Dean</SPAN></B></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">Dean May             cell 812.239.3359 </SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 </SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">Terre Haute IN  47802</SPAN></P> <P class=MsoAutoSig> </P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Steven Hopp<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Wanting to do it right<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Hello all,</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>I guess I am writing this as a vent rather than a request.  I work for a well known piano dealer in my area who's business has been around for over 30 years.  I do some warranty tunings and some repair.  The owner has been like gold to me.  Helping me whenever he can.  Allowing me to work on my own projects in his shop.  Of course he gets floor and warranty tunings at a discount so it is very win win.  However,  when it comes to some things he wants me to cut corners.  For example, I just did a warranty tuning for a piano he delivered and it was 100 cents flat.  I pulled it up to pitch and did two tunings that day and plan to do go work on it again as it is already going flat.  Typical for such a piano.  However, he wanted me to leave it flat and just do a "touch up" on the tuning.  Also several of the high treble hammers and one of the bass hammers were sluggish and need some attention.  I couldn't give it at that time but he now says just spray it with some WD-40 and it will be fine.  There are other things that he wants me to do that I just won't do.  I need this association but how do you tell the guy you won't do some things and still get paid?  If I had left the piano flat and the lady eventually called another tuner for whatever reason - I would look like the moron not him.  Just a note in my life.  Any thoughts and or empathy are welcome.  </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Steven</DIV></DIV><BR clear=all> <HR> <A href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2728??PS=47575">Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! </A> <BR> <P> <P> <P>>_______________________________________________<BR>>Pianotech list info https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives<BR> <P></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2731??PS=47575" target="_top">Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! </a> </html>