<div> David, Matthew,<br> <br> I used a bit of two of the methods you suggest to get trained, plus much seat-of-the-pants/on-the-job training.  <br> <br> I'd been in the business a long time, having learned tuning 25 or so years before I went full time, but not spending time learning much else in the way of piano technology.  I was in sales, moving, tuning, floor sweeping, etc., etc., for a couple of different stores.<br> <br> Personal situations eventually led me into business for myself, at which point I realized the technical end of my education needed shoring up in a huge way.  I joined the PTG, purchased the Potter course, and knocked on doors of my former employers looking for work, which they were more than happy to give me.  I was able to utilize the skills learned in the texts and the PTG on real, live pianos.  <br> <br> Like others here, I was frustrated with the amount of time it took for my assignments to come back to me while finishing Randy's course.  When they DID arrive, I was very pleased with Randy's very thorough evaluations and attention to detail.  In retrospect, I consider the waiting period training for the waiting period required to schedule the various tests....:-)<br> <br> I wish the school option had been available to me, but it was not.  However, if one has an active PTG chapter, attends conferences, a place to practice/work on pianos--and access to this list!-- a good education is quite possible.  <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="clear: both;">Dave Stahl<br> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: David and Jean Weiss <djweiss@ntelos.net><br> To: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 5:29 am<br> Subject: Re: Re:The Potter Dilemma, Randy not Harry<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_5ec4d730-3328-48a7-a023-7970c83ff287"> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Matthew,</font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">There are 3 ways to get trained; home study, apprenticeship, and attending school.  I did all three so please allow me to make some suggestions.  </font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I started with Randy Potter's course.  On the phone he was always encouraging, but I ran into the same problems as others did, he would not return my recorded or written materials, so it was impossible to get any feedback. Although I finished the course in about a year, it doesn't take long to realize you can't learn this profession through correspondence.  Still, his course is a great introduction.  </font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I then found a technician would let me work in his shop.  My "day gig" was 4 day a week position, so I had 2 days every week to spend with him.  He was an excellent technician, a great teacher, and a great guy.  I spent about 3 years with him and learned a lot.  But he was running a business and in spite of his best intentions it wasn't his primary focus to train me.  </font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">By this time I wanted to quit my day gig and become a full time technician, but I knew my skill level was not good enough, and the pace of my learning was too slow.   Finally I bit the bullet and attended the program at the University of Western Ontario.  It was the best decision I could have made.  I moved up to Ontario with my wife and 2 kids.  We spent a year there.  The training was absolutely great.  12 students and 4 instructors whose only goal was to teach us.  The program was intense and demanding but at the end I felt was ready.  </font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">If it is at all possible, and even if its not, I recommend you attend one of the schools.  (I think Western Ontario is the best, but I'm biased.)  If you are really committed to becoming a highly skilled technician, I think attending a school is the only way.  </font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">David Weiss, RPT</font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b> <a title="toddpianoworks@yahoo.com" href="mailto:toddpianoworks@yahoo.com">Matthew Todd</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 03, 2007 7:25 PM</div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re:The Potter Dilemma, Randy not Harry</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Just to give you all an update, I was able to talk with Randy this afternoon.  I believe we are heading toward a resolution, so we'll see what happens.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thank you all for your posts!</div> <div>Matthew<br> <br> <b><i>James H Frazee <<a href="mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com">jimfrazee@msn.com</a>></i></b> wrote:</div> <blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"> <div> <div>Matthew,</div> <div> </div> <div>I, like you, signed up and paid for the complete Potter course about four years ago.  It is beyond question an excellent course in terms of information provided, tools issued, video tape/DVD's to listen to and the thought of having your tuning exercises listened to, graded and comments provided.  The problem I faced, like you, was getting the cassettes back in a reasonable amount of time.  I finally gave up after the last one took seven months, more than half a year!  Note that when I did get them back, the grade and comments sent back were absolutely finest kind, spot on.  And, I almost always got my graded homework back in a fair amount of time, also with excellent comments.  But I figured I'd be well into Social Security before I could tune.</div> <div> </div> <div>The difference for me is that I began studying with Russell Gordon, my mentor, who's superb.  The (growing) problem for Randy is, I think, that he's just one person.  (Yes, they've hired other people I think, but I don't know.)  I for one would prefer to have him grade my cassettes but just think of the schedule:  off to this convention, that convention, a regional meeting, then his own school, then more conventions - not to mention trying to have a real life with real family members!  In the beginning I was frustrated, as you probably are now, especially from a pragmatic standpoint since he already had my all my money and I had, what, well, exactly what - I had all the course work which I also continually use it as reference, I had all the tools that came with the course which, at least, got me started, I had all the videotapes and, lo and behold, I was already out tuning and learning (and continuing to the learn) the craft, and repairs and joined the PTG.</div> <div> </div> <div>Now, I've met Randy at two conventions (Rochester and Philly) and I think (somewhat cautiously in the beginning) he knows who I am.   And I think he's really a fine fellow that cares about all the above and about the PTG.  I also think, for these very reasons, he spreads himself way, way, way too thin and, if you ask him, he probably would even do that more.  I believe you can't learn tuning and the craft just from reading.  I think having mentor or a school or a very active PTG chapter will go along way.</div> <div> </div> <div>So, in the end, am I frustrated or worse or not.  No, considering all I did get, I'm happy and I'm on my way.  Whether we like it or not, caviar wasn't what we expected the first time either.</div> <div> </div> <div>Jim Frazee</div> </div> </blockquote><br> <div> </div> <hr size="1"> Fussy? 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