<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> It should be self-evident that you can remove a screw and not do the 20 minute plug job. I’m not in the habit of leaving screws in soundboards, I just don’t plug the holes. I do re-use the screws (told you I’m cheap). Perhaps the buzz call back was because the first tech didn’t routinely treat all the ribs and rim with CA as I have suggested. CA would likely have sealed the screw as well as the rib/rim joints though I don’t recommend leaving the screws in place. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I presume if you costed the whole job that it included the 20 minutes spent on the cosmetics. And your 20 minutes spent should translate into something around a $30 additional charge for the customer for something purely cosmetic. I’m sure you agree that it is purely cosmetic as I haven’t heard you claim anything contrary. Seems rather unnecessary for the kinds of pianos we are talking about- a 30 year old studio in this particular case. I know if I was the customer I wouldn’t want to pay $30 extra for a cosmetic fix that nobody would see. But then I’m cheap.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Dean<o:p></o:p> <u1:PersonName u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Dean May</st1:PersonName></u1:PersonName>             cell 812.239.3359 <o:p></o:p> PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 <o:p></o:p> <u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:City u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Terre Haute</st1:City></u1:City> <u1:State u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">IN</u1:State></st1:State>  <u1:PostalCode u2:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">47802</u1:PostalCode></st1:PostalCode></st1:place></u1:place><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of PAULREVENKOJONES Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:18 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: glue on the fingers<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Wow! It never occurred to me that this "finishing" a job was screwing the customer. All of 20 minutes to do the plugging and clean-up. I have had the experience of going in behind other technicians on this type of repair and finding the most godawful mess, and because the client called me about continued buzzing in the board, which was caused by the screw in the rib which, when I removed it and plugged the hole in the rib, the noise went away. I can't recall that I fractionalized out the cost of the final steps as "additional", but simply costed the whole job. It's negligible, whatever it is. We all go to sleep at night in a different position :-). <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Paul<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> "If you want to know the truth, stop having opinions" (Chinese fortune cookie)<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> In a message dated 08/05/07 22:06:06 Central Daylight Time, rnossaman@cox.net writes:<o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> > That's funny, Ron, because you ain't used enough CA until you've got a > couple of fingers glued together, or fingernails glued to the underlying > skin. :-) I've used plenty of CA, on and off of fingers. I just don't consider it to be the first choice in all instances, or even in many. I guess I'm just not as impressed by it as you apparently are. > I, too, sometimes use the screws to pull the ribs together. But on a 30 > year old piano that nobody will look at the back I wouldn't worry about > plugging the screw holes. I still use the CA even with screwing the ribs > together, but I've had just as good results not doing the clamping. I > just fill the joint with CA. Remember what kind of pianos we are working > on here. I dare say reversibility will never be an issue on any of the > soundboards I have used CA on. It's been well over 10 years, maybe 15, since I've put a screw through a rib to effect this repair. If I were doing three a day, I'd likely just dip them in CA out of despair, if nothing else, and get on with it. As it is, I'll use the screw and Titebond the next time it comes up on the wheel. > The problem with doing all the cosmetic work, plugging, sanding, > finishing the plugs, etc., is that is very expensive work. You should be > charging the customer for all that time and effort, and you may be > forcing them to pay for a lot of unneeded cosmetic work that they would > just as soon skip. I've scrupulously avoided unnecessary cosmetic work for 30 years now, so it's not likely to become critical any time real soon. I don't plug screw holes and buff up the scar to enhance income by arbitrary customer massage, when it serves no non-glandular function. I leave the screw just where I put it, since I put it there for what I considered to be a valid reason in the first place. I figure the screw is no uglier than the situation that required it's installation, so it stays, and I don't make a habit of screwing my customers by inventing unnecessary work to charge them for. I try to do, and will continue to try to do what I consider to be the best I can for the money I charge. If CA doesn't fit that criteria in any given situation, by my estimation, then it won't be used by me until it does. Ron N <o:p></o:p> </div> </blockquote> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </body> </html>