<div>On 8/17/07, Dean May <<a href="mailto:deanmay@pianorebuilders.com">deanmay@pianorebuilders.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Good question. Consider that the Protec or Goose Juice might not work. You'd be called back and the customer would expect you to fix it for free. You need to charge enough so that the average collected would cover any such call back. I usually try to head this off, though, and explain that the lubrication will probably work based on my experience, but the action may need more drastic measures. It also isn't free to stock Protec/GJ and hypo oiler. I try to charge $20-$25 any time I get the hypo out and lubricate all the flanges. Dean Dean May             cell 812.239.3359 PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 Terre Haute IN  47802 -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of David Lawson Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:23 PM To: Pianotech List Subject: Charges I am throwing in this little scenario for you to consider when working out your charges. Before the arrival of Protec, and the ability to place a few drops on to a tight centre pin, instead of removing the hammer, re-centring the flange and replacing them, we charged for the time taken, right? What do you do now that the same job is done, with little time involved, just the cost of the Protec? I still charge for a flat fee for the curing of the problem, and it is based upon my previous charges for the full job. Am I screwing the customer, or am I supplying a service that my expertise permits me to carry out? Curing a sticking note is the bottom line, and having a happy camper for a client gives you license to charge for the service given. I wait with great anticipation for your replies!! regards, David Lawson Wangaratta Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean May" < <a href="mailto:deanmay@pianorebuilders.com">deanmay@pianorebuilders.com</a>> To: "'Pianotech List'" <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: RE: squeaky, creaky pedal puzzler---SOLVED! > I dare say, Ron, that you charge more per hour for your time than some > beginning piano tech. You should, anyway. That isn't screwing the customer, > it is employing the rationale I poorly set forth at 3:00 AM this morning > after the birth of my fourth grandchild. Your higher rates are justified > precisely because you have learned some expensive early lessons. You can get > the job done quicker now. > > I certainly did not intend that one should charge on a bill 18 minutes of > time not accounted for. Only that your total charges need to reflect the > expensive lessons learned. > > Dean > > Dean May             cell 812.239.3359 > > PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 > > Terre Haute IN  47802 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf > Of Ron Nossaman > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:40 AM > To: Pianotech List > Subject: Re: squeaky, creaky pedal puzzler---SOLVED! > > > > If I got a bill from someone and was charged for 18 unexplained minutes, > > I would have some questions. I think your charges will appear > > inconsistent if done in this manner. A better way to compensate for > > experience and training value is simply to have an appropriate billing > > rate. An appropriate billing rate will fairly compensate you for your > > expertise, experience and training and your invoices will be consistent > > and easily understood/explained. > > > > Terry Farrell > > > I quite agree. When (not if) I take too long to find some > problem, and choose not to bill my client the full amount for > my own ignorance, I also choose not to screw the next guy. > When I hand the first guy the invoice, someone pays for my > education then and there - either him or me. My choice. > Ron N > > > Hi David, Having been at this for only 38 years and considering myself to still have things to learn, I am not as quick with the Protek as some are but prefer to ascertain if the problem is singular and temporary or an indicator of things to come. Perhaps it is the first of a series due to a climactic change, whether seasonal or manmade. My first response is to question the customer, have they moved the piano, shampooed the carpets, added a room or furnace humidifier, had a water leak either plumbing or roof/window/etc. In other words before I go for the simple fix, out of hand, I ascertain the CAUSE, if possible. I can then form a better plan of action, for me, my reputation and my customer. If it turns out that it is an isolated incident, one sticky action center, there are still other remedies to try prior to Protek. If it is a hammer butt center pin, strengthen the return spring, jack center the same thing, whippen center I would use the Protek. Only if I didn't want to pull the action to see why, which if I had the time I would probably do, bent center pin, scratched capstan, I could go on. </blockquote> <div> </div> <div>I point out to the newbies in our chapter constantly that piano work is a studied work, not so much about knowledge as about observation. If you have one key/note/hammer/whatever that is acting up you have 87 samples to compare it to and observe the differences until you figure out what's wrong. If they just learn to start spraying Protek and Goose Juice willy nilly at everything that seems odd how will they learn how to repair things properly?  </div> <div> </div> <div>The question was about charging. I charge my hourly rate which is based on what I know, just as a mechanic, electrician or plumber charges an hourly rate that is based upon their knowledge. They then charge that rate for the time it takes, period. If we begin adding in small amounts based on the time it took us to learn each tidbit in our arsenal we could easily price ourselves out of business. It took me 8&1/2 hours to tune my first piano, how do I figure that in? I've been amassing knowledge about construction, air handling, AC, heating units, air flow, types of windows, flooring and many other things directly relating to pianos and their care for 38 years how do I figure that into the price? I don't! I charge my hourly rate, I give good advice, I do good work, work that pleases me, not my customers, my standards are higher! I tune to please myself, not my customers again, my standards are higher! I get called back by most, I work regularly, I sleep well, that's enough. </div>  </div> -- Michael Magness Magness Piano Service 608-786-4404 <a href="http://www.IFixPianos.com">www.IFixPianos.com</a> email <a href="mailto:mike@ifixpianos.com">mike@ifixpianos.com </a>