<br><br> <div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/1/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">David M. Porritt</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dporritt@smu.edu" target="_blank">dporritt@smu.edu</a> > wrote:</span> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div lang="EN-US" bgcolor="white" vlink="blue" link="blue"> <div> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">On P22s I've found it easier to just lift one end of the piano onto one dolly, position it put the screws in the back, then lift the other end on the dolly and do the same.  If you really want to put the bolts through the bottom board you have to tip it, but I've put a lot of dollies on by myself with the only screws in the back.  </span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">dp</span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></font></p> <div> <p><font face="Arial" color="blue" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">____________________</span></font><font color="blue"><span style="COLOR: blue"></span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">David M. Porritt, RPT</span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue"><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dporritt@smu.edu" target="_blank">dporritt@smu.edu</a> </span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" color="blue" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">From Michael Magness on 8/28/2007</span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I have found the holes in the back to be next to worthless without bolting through the bottom as well. The lag bolts used in the holes in the back work loose and you then have a problem. I've always bolted the back holes first to hold the dollies in position. I then tip it, WITH HELP, since the tipper won't work as well with the dollies on the piano. I'm 6'4" and weigh close to 300 lbs. so I'm not kidding when I say you'll need help! I then use 2" x 5/16 grade 5 bolts after drilling holes through the bottom board. I use a large flat washer about 1/2" size, with a smaller flat washer 5/16" to keep the nut from pulling through, a lock washer then the nut. I do this on both dollies and you'll have a permanent installation! The large washer is to disperse the pressure of the bolt/dolly over a larger area so it doesn't pull out easily. </span></font></p> <div> </div> <div>I have installed about a dozen of these sets of dollies and have always followed this procedure after seeing the sloppy job done by school custodians who are given the job. When I had someone my size to help, I stood the pianos on end, it worked much better than tipping on the back with a tipper but I realize that's not for everyone! <grin> </div></div></div></div></blockquote> <div><font face="times new roman,serif"><em></em></font> </div> <div><font face="times new roman,serif"><em>A Tutorial for those who assume bolting dollies to the back of pianos is enough!!</em></font></div> <div><em><font face="Times New Roman"></font></em> </div> <div><font face="times new roman,serif"><em>I assumed the bolting of the dollies to the back of the pianos only was the sloppy work of the janitors or those who didn't know better, not those who should! </em></font></div> <div><font face="times new roman,serif"><em>Lagbolts or large screws run into the back of the piano as the only fasteners for the dollies will come loose due to 2 differing factors. The first being humidity changes, even in hardwood, a screw or lag will loosen  when holding metal to wood when the humidity changes severely as it inevetibly will in an institutional setting(where else would dollies be required?) . Secondly the lateral strain applied to the lagbolts/screws by the dollies, remember the piano will be pushed not the dollies so when the dollies meet an obstacle, a threshold, a carpet, debris, a doorway, these dollies are like outriggers extending from the back of the piano a good 6 to 8 inches and catch on doorways, chairs, risers, and other obstructions. When this happens the dolly will stop but the weight of the piano(inertia)will cause it to move slightly on the dolly tearing the wood fibers and pulling the lagbolt/woodscrew loose. However a bolt through the bottom board, usually not just a board but a piece of laminate, with a good sized washer, smaller washer, lock washer and nut tightened well is there to stay </em></font></div><br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div lang="EN-US" bgcolor="white" vlink="blue" link="blue"> <div> <div> <div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </span></font></div> <p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Clark Sprague<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:02 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:bdornfeld@earthlink.net" target="_blank"> bdornfeld@earthlink.net</a>; Pianotech List<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: Piano dolly</span></font></p></div> <div><span> <p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font></p> <div> <p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Michelle, What Bruce says is true, AMHIK.  I have a scar on the front of my shin, from a P22 that slid down the front of the tipper, and the back edge of the lid took a chunk out of my shin-bone.  No-one was around to help me put the piano back on it's feet, and I couldn't wait.  A very painful lesson.  That piano also landed dead square on the top of my foot (nothing broken, but I screamed anyway).  Clark A. Sprague, RPT </span></font><font face="MS Sans Serif" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></font></p></div> <blockquote style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <div> <p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p></div> <div> <p style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <a title="bdornfeld@earthlink.net" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:bdornfeld@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Bruce Dornfeld</a> </span></font></p></div> <div> <p><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <a title="pianotech@ptg.org" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank"> pianotech</a> </span></font></p></div> <div> <p><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Friday, August 31, 2007 11:10 PM </span></font></p></div> <div> <p><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Piano dolly</span> </font></p></div> <div> <p><font face="MS Sans Serif" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></font></p></div> <div> <p><font face="MS Sans Serif" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">  One thing that was mentioned was that the tipper does not work well with dollies on the piano.  If you are installing twin dollies, this is very true.  You can tip the piano back and get the dollies on, but then you have trouble.  Before tipping your Yamaha console back down to the floor, the back of the dollies will hit the floor.  If you are lucky and strong, you may get the piano to stand up.  If not, the piano may slip off of the tipper, land flat on its back and shove the tipper onto you.    One lady in our chapter broke her ankle when a piano slipped off of a tipper.  <strong><b><u><font face="MS Sans Serif"><span>If you have to do it solo, with a tipper, strap the piano to the tipper near the bottom and get that strap tight</span></font></u></b></strong>!</span></font></p></div> <div> <p><font face="MS Sans Serif" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></font></p></div> <div> <p><font face="MS Sans Serif" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Your best bet is to get some one there on location to help you.  </span></font></p></div></blockquote></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><em>As I said on 8/28/2007 when I first answered the question a few hours after it was posted</em></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> I then tip it, WITH HELP, since the tipper won't work as well with the dollies on the piano. I'm 6'4" and weigh close to 300 lbs. so I'm not kidding when I say you'll need help!  </span></font></div> <div> </div> <div>I have installed about a dozen of these sets of dollies and have always followed this procedure after seeing the sloppy job done by school custodians who are given the job. When I had someone my size to help, I stood the pianos on end, it worked much better than tipping on the back with a tipper but I realize that's not for everyone! <grin> </div> <div>Mike</div><br>-- <br>I sit down to the piano regularly at nine-o'clock in the morning and Mesdames les Muses have learned to be on time for that rendezvous. <br>- Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky<br><br>Michael Magness<br> Magness Piano Service <br>608-786-4404<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.ifixpianos.com/" target="_blank">www.IFixPianos.com</a><br>email <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:mike@ifixpianos.com" target="_blank"> mike@ifixpianos.com</a>