<HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3132" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"> <DIV>David:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All of the methodology you describe is in the arsenal of voicers, including me. I question the phrase "meant to be treated". I doubt that there is any inherent built-in intended methodology other than those recommended by specific hammer makers (Steinway comes to mind with the discussion several years ago about the pre-lacquered hammers). I've attended numerous classes at meetings over the years given by particular hammer manufacturers. To a one, they speak either generally or specifically about the procedures you outline below and nothing more, and all with the intent to sell their hammers (can't fault them for trying). Chris Robinson, Steve Pearson, Bob Davis, and Dale Erwin are the only class lecturers I've run into (I'm sure there are more) who have actually demonstrated "outside the box" techniques which work such as side-needling. You gave away the reason to do it: toning down the attack on a hard hammer. It's certainly not the first thing I do, and maybe not the last, but it is in the arsenal of techniques. I have run into several concert technicians (CSO, Tanglewood, Boston Symphony years ago) who literally swear by this with a great deal more fervor than I. It's just another method. And just for the record, I was responding to the use of single glovers needles in the original post. A single stitch all the way through right above the molding will do an amazing job in reining in a recalcitrant attack while not changing the other characteristics so carefully created. I'd be interested in your trying it yourself to see the effect (not on your concert D, please). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paul  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><STRONG>"If you want to know the truth, stop having opinions" (Chinese fortune cookie)</STRONG></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 08/31/07 21:17:53 Central Daylight Time, davidlovepianos@comcast.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"> <DIV> <STYLE type=text/css> .aolmailheader {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial} a.aolmailheader:link {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:active {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:hover {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} </STYLE> <META content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)" name=Generator> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don’t care for that approach.  While it will tone down the attack on a hard hammer, I don’t think it’s really how those hammer were meant to be treated.  The problem with tensioned hammers is often that the shoulders have no give, not that the hammers are too hard under the crown.  They should be relatively hard there.  First you need to needle the hammer from 10 – 11:30 and </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">12:30 – 2:00</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> and create a softer area there.  That might take several stitches on each side—maybe more than several depending on the hammer.  After that there should be an inverted triangle that doesn’t get needled directly except for maybe 2-3 mm at the surface.  After you soften the shoulders, you can insert a needle very close to the strike point and pointed slightly away from the tip of the molding to release some tension from the crown but only after you have created a cushion in the shoulders so that the tension from the crown has somewhere to go.  That type of voicing will be much more stable, will produce a similar tone at all levels of playing and also will not sound crappy and distorted when you play a forte, which a hard shoulder softer crown will.  Lacquered hammers are a different story and some hammers just don’t respond to anything.  They should be thrown out.  </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">David Love<BR>davidlovepianos@comcast.net<BR>www.davidlovepianos.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>PAULREVENKOJONES<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, August 31, 2007 1:14 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Pianotech List</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: Voicing needles?</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ed:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I've found their greatest utility to be in stitching from the side of the hammer at or just above the wood molding. A single needle all the way through at various positions in a straight line up from the tip of the molding can do wonders. But with care! A stitch at a time. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Paul</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>