<div> </div> <div> </div> <div>In the future it would be helpful for all concerned if those reading my posts would read all of them, not just portions.</div> <div> Don when he suggested that I read up on CA and pinblocks copied and pasted a portion of my post but missed the part where I asked if the coils were similar to the Hyundai that I do, that is further from the plate than normal. A simple question that has never been addressed or answered, if they're not, the rest of what I had to say becomes somewhat moot but as I say since most folks seem to have missed reading that part and Alan or Michelle won't or can't answer it, everyone is all caught up in the CA and getting all sticky about it, pun intended. </div> <div>Then because I don't have enough people jumping on me about enough things already Mark Potter jumps in wanting to know why driving the pins works. I'm certain it's on the list somewhere but what the heck. After a tuning pin has been in place for a while the wood fibers that the threads are dependant on for their grip get mashed down and the threads don't grip as well. When you drive the pin deeper it helps to stir-up/stand-up some of those fibers again giving the threads a new grip, at the same time the pin is tapered and a thicker portion of the pin has moved into a different part of the hole along it's entire length. So that 1/8 tap or perhaps a little more actually gives the whole pin new area to grip. That's the way it was explained to me and I thought it made sense but if there are those with other opinions, great! Mark continues, supposing there is a crack or delamination. I don't know about you Mark but I visually inspect blocks for delaminations prior to driving pins, in grands it usually can be seen. I of course support the block when I drive them.  </div> <div>As for cracks you can feel them as you tune you'll find a pin line that is looser or won't hold as well as the others, sometimes it will be on the diagonal, it's not hard if you know what you're looking for. I expected neither in the particular piano we were discussing and felt Alan or Michelle (the way the post first arrived, I couldn't tell who was asking and who was answering)certainly had enough experience to ascertain such should it present itself. </div> <div>William Monroe jumped in explaining that CA was perfectly acceptable for pins that were already far in and weren't holding, again I stop here and point out that he must have not read my first post asking about the coil to plate distance, this is the crucial point that EVERYONE seems to have glossed over! WHY? Alan then weighs in again with horror stories about tuning pianos where someone drove the pins in too far, again read the second paragraph, here it is, </div> <div> About the loose pins in the block, do the coils look to be a little higher from the plate than normal? I noticed they looked that way in the one I do. I figured at some point I would probably have to drive them, right now they seem tight enough, I just have to watch my hammer technique and not get lazy or flagpoling can be a problem </div> <div> </div> <div> Now how did everyone miss that? Why did Alan or Michelle or whoever has the loose pins never answer that?</div> <div> </div> <div>By the way Alan's suggestion for CA and the DC I didn't see until hours after my post when I noticed a couple of things in my spam file and looked, one was Alan's post regarding that from 12 hours earlier! </div> <div> </div> <div>Alan wants to know what I mean by those who are too quick to use CA. Simply that since I began monitoring the list I have seen CA advanced as the first and best repair method for loose sound board ribs, soundboard cracks warped away from ribs, cracked keys, loose hammers, sprung hammer felt from the molding, loose bridge caps, loose bridge pins, stripped screws, stripped capstans, broken hammer shanks and that is only a partial list that comes to mind.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I have nothing against CA for pinblocks, I just feel it isn't the permanent solution so many of you feel it is. </div> <div> </div> <div>I have experience in this, I tune for many military families and had one that had returned from Alaska with a Wurlitzer console that had been CA'd there, 1 year prior to them being transferred here(southwest Wisconsin). When I tuned it the first time I could feel many loose pins barely holding and reported this to the customer, suggesting CA. She told me about it having already being done. I told her I would do some consulting and get back with her. I spoke to some of the other people in my chapter, we came to the conclusion that it couldn't hurt! So I re-applied CA, the results weren't stellar but it was better than when I first tuned it. By the way the "housewife/military mom" is also a chemical engineer! So she was of some help when I was questioning whether to re-apply or not. </div> <div>The point of this story? Did the first CA treatment not work as well due to a lack of humidity(Alaska in winter)that was her theory, which I took away as something to remember in the future. The 2nd didn't work as well because of the first, hers and mine. </div> <div>I relate this anecdotally, not as a condemnation of CA treatment but simply as an experience I had that helps to shape my attitude and belief that CA treatment is not permanent, it's longevity will be measured by how bad off the piano was when it was treated. </div> <div> </div> <div>Oh and Alan, you are welcome for the info I provided on where to find the regulation specs for that Hyundai. I noticed no one else bothered to give that to you and you got too busy making me the whipping boy for the 3rd day in a row to thank me. </div> <div> </div> <div>Speaking of that I want to thank one and all for your generous and warm acceptance of my posts. Even when I preface them with "in my opinion" or "if such and such exists, then I would suggest" they get torn apart, the meaning, meat and flavor are all ripped asunder then reformed into something I barely recognize as my words and thrown back in my face! I don't send these posts in anger or spewing an "I know more than you do" attitude as so many of you answer them with. I just post with what I know and believe to be true, what works for me and has for many years, if it doesn't work for you, don't do it! I won't, as so many of you do, shove it down your throat. If you disagree with me, state your case clearly and concisely but please address ALL of what I've written. Distorting what I've written to make your case, doesn't make your case, it only proves you can't make your case honestly!  </div> <div>  </div> <div> </div> <div>Below is an example of a statement regarding the negative effects of low humidity on CA that went UNCHALLENGED on the list.</div> <div> <div> <div> <div> </div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> I remember hearing or reading somewhere that any CA that comes from a<br>grocery store, or hardware store, or "big box" store must meet certain shelf<br>life requirements.  To assure that shelf life, additives are used which can <br>have an effect on performance...<br><br>Stick to the hobby shops, or mail order - My best results have come from<br>multiple passes instead of one heavy application.  Also, be aware that low<br>humidity can have a negative impact on the pinblock CA treatment.... as some <br>of you in the dry southwest have reported.<br><br>Ron Koval<br>Chicagoland<br> </div></div></div></div> <div> <div> <div> <div class="plainText">___________________________________________________________________________________________</div> <div class="plainText"> </div> <div class="plainText">Mike</div> <div class="plainText"> </div> <div class="plainText"> </div> <div class="plainText">Unless you can question your own beliefs, you have no place questioning the beliefs of others.</div><br><br>Michael Magness<br>Magness Piano Service<br>608-786-4404 <br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.ifixpianos.com/" target="_blank"> www.IFixPianos.com</a><br>email <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:mike@ifixpianos.com" target="_blank">mike@ifixpianos.com</a> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div>