<div>Noah</div> <div> </div> <div>I'm not trying to stop you from doing your homework. However, piano technicians, for the most part, duplicate what factories do. We basically use the same products: felts, woods, metals, lacquers, etc. I don't know what "overseas" manufacturing facilities are doing, but the US factories can't afford to ignore stringent United States EPA standards in their manufacturing processes. For details on that, contact them directly. If you can show them a way to reduce environmental dangers, and save them money at the same time, I'm sure they'll listen.  You might also want to contact members of your organization who sell, distribute or manufacture woods, felts, refinishing supplies, glues, etc. They are listen in the front of the PTG directory.<br> <br> Good luck<br> </div> <div style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<br> Piano Tuner/Technician<br> Honolulu, HI<br> Author of <br> The Business of Piano Tuning<br> available from Potter Press<br> www.pianotuning.com</div> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Noah Haverkamp <noahhaverkamp@yahoo.com><br> To: pianotech@ptg.org<br> Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:46 pm<br> Subject: ecofriendly<br> <br> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_ab0bde19-f99c-4aef-a56e-ddba327359c8> <div><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Interesting banter. If the general list feels this is not a good place to discuss these things at this time, so be it. However, I would like to clarify that I am not interested solely in manufacturing. Far from it.  I believe 99 cents makes 99 cents, but one penny makes a dollar. In other words, every piece of info and technique matters. The idea that one's actions are "miniscule" compared to others is antiquated, and untrue. It's only a matter of time before all processes, including our beloved piano technology, changes in ways that benefit the whole world. It is inevitable. Evolution demands it. So I have no doubt there will be a huge place for this in the seminars, and on the list. When? - well - that's what i'm working on. <br> -Noah Haverkamp Frere<br> <br> <br> Point taken.  Disagree, in that there are likely a number of processes used in mfg, that we as rebuilders use and there could certainly be implications, but, OK, I see your point.</FONT></div> <div> </div> <div><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>William R. Monroe</FONT></div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B> <A title=wimblees@aol.com href="http://webmail.aol.com/30978/aol/en-us/Compose?To=wimblees@aol.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Willem Blees</A> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="http://us.f560.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=pianotech@ptg.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>pianotech@ptg.org</A> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:24 PM</div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none"><B>Subject:</B> Re: ecofriendliness</div> <div><br> </div> As I said, there is a place for this kind of exploration and investigating. I just don't think the PTG, either on this forum, or at seminars, etc. is the place. We are piano technicians, not manufacturers. Now, if Noah finds out that the glues or resins we are using in our day to day operations, for example, are environmentally unfriendly, that is something that has a direct impact on us. But from what he is asking, he wants information about the manufacturing of pianos. <br> <br> <div style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<br> Piano Tuner/Technician<br> Honolulu, HI<br> Author of <br> The Business of Piano Tuning<br> available from Potter Press<br> <A href="http://www.pianotuning.com/" target=_blank>www.pianotuning.com</A></div> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: William R. Monroe <<A href="mailto:pianotech@a440piano.net">pianotech@a440piano.net</A>><br> To: Pianotech List <<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>><br> Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 2:50 pm<br> Subject: Re: ecofriendliness<br> <br> <div><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Respectfully disagree, Wim,</FONT></div> <div> </div> <div><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>It is just this kind of thinking that helps identify weak points (environmentally or otherwise) in our business.  Some we can't (or choose not to) do anything about, like, making pianos.  Others, like finding more sustainable products to use, for example, that still give us the musical qualities we desire, may be discovered and implemented to reduce our impact.</FONT></div> <div> </div> <div><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>I used to work at the Gibson acoustic guitar factory in Bozeman, MT (before Gibwin) and while I was there we started experimenting with a different, faster growing, less environmentally detrimental farmed tree for the face of the guitar (soundboard).  I forget what we called these models, but, just the same.....it's a valid example.  I'm sure we wouldn't have to look to hard at our industry to find things that not only would be environmentally more friendly, but quite possibly more economical as well.</FONT></div> <div> </div> <div><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>William R. Monroe</FONT></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Paul</div> <div> </div> <div>My point is, if Noah finds out that piano manufacturing is "killing" our planet, will you stop working on pianos? Pianos are our business. If manufatureres stop making pianos, in the long run, it will effect our business. <br> <br> I'm not saying the public should ignore enviromental problems of piano manufacturers, if there are any. But in my opinion, a PTG sponsored seminar or technical institute is not the arena where this should be aired.  <br> <br> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<br> <br> <FONT face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>Paul wrote:</FONT></div> If no one goes to his class he probably won't teach it any more. If lots of people (you obviously excluded) attend and rave about it to their friends, perhaps still more people will mob him and he'll have to write a best-seller. Ya' never know, but with your attitude about the supposed non-problem our planet faces, due in some small part by piano mfrs worldwide, not just the 4 in this narcissistic nation, you'll never find out and my kids will choke to death. <br> <br> <div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <div><SPAN class=q> <div><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <div> </div> Okay. I'm looking for any and all information regarding the environment (preservation of forests, damage to environment from glue, etc.) as it pertains to a piano. I intend to become an expert and then teach a class. Any help? <br>              -Noah Haverkamp Frere<br> </BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></div> </SPAN></div> </BLOCKQUOTE></div> <br> The question is, why? What will you gain by knowing the damage to the environment, and the depletion of the forests, and all the other "problems" related to the manufacturing of pianos? First of all, there are only 4 piano manufacturing facilities left in this country. The "damage" they are causing is minuscule compared to the other industries. Second, on a world wide basis, again, the impact is virtually non-existence. And last, what impact will the information you learn have on the industry, even if you do create and teach an outstanding class? <br> <br> I'm not saying you shouldn't do the homework, but will it be beneficial to us.<br> <br> Wim </div> <div class="AOLPromoFooter"> <hr style="margin-top:10px;" /> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free <a href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970" target="_blank">AOL Mail</a>!<br/> </div>