<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns1="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> For someone who has been in the business a long time I’m struggling with your comment that appraising is waaay beyond your experience. You don’t really have to be in the business of selling, just be observant. Pay attention to what pianos are selling for in the store. When you get a customer that just bought a piano ask them how much they gave for it. Take note of the piano’s style and condition. After awhile you get a feel for 2 levels of fair market values: store selling prices and private transaction selling prices. And there is one more price you need to worry about: replacement value. When writing an appraisal for sale you worry about the first two. When writing one for insurance you worry about the latter. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And I’d have to say if you’ve been in the business for awhile and haven’t sold any pianos, you may be missing out on a good additional income stream. At least once or twice a year I’ll come across a piano that has to be moved out right away. You can often pick up a decent console or spinet in the $100-$300 range, sometimes free. Clean it up, give it a pitch raise, slap a one year warranty on it, offer free delivery, and you’ve got a great $950 - $1500 starter piano for someone. All that’s required is the next time someone asks, “Do you buy/sell pianos?” you say, “Sure, sometimes, what do you have/need?”<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Dean<o:p></o:p> <u1:PersonName u2:st="on">Dean May</u1:PersonName>             cell 812.239.3359 <o:p></o:p> PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 <o:p></o:p> <u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:City u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Terre Haute</st1:City></u1:City> <u1:State u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">IN</u1:State></st1:State>  <u1:PostalCode u2:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">47802</u1:PostalCode></st1:PostalCode></st1:place></u1:place><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Porritt, David Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:41 AM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName> Subject: RE: Appraising follow up<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> I’ve been fascinated with this thread on appraising a piano.  I’ve been in this business for a long time, have the RPT certificate etc.  I do not feel qualified to appraise a piano since I have stayed as far away from piano sales as I could.  I can look at a piano and tell its good points and bad points and what it needs to be better.  However, how much money it would bring on the open market is waaaaay beyond my expertise.  When someone asks me how much they should get for their piano I defer to someone who works in a store where used pianos are bought and sold daily.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> dp<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> David M. Porritt, RPT<o:p></o:p> <a href="dporritt@smu.edu">dporritt@smu.edu</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of paulrevenkojones@aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:43 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: Appraising follow up<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Paul, I would have thought that this is a technical topic and well worth discussing on the technical forum. Appraising is a technical activity, not a political one. If we had more discussion on appraisal, maybe we turn out better appaisers. Paul<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> -----Original Message----- From: paul bruesch <paul@bruesch.net> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName> <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:35 pm Subject: Re: Appraising follow up<o:p></o:p> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_2461ba6e-43ab-4389-8d38-5b29081402d3"> Can this PTG politics thread please migrate to the proper forum? Please? PTG-L. <o:p></o:p> <div> On 10/21/07, <a href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com">paulrevenkojones@aol.com </a><<a href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com">paulrevenkojones@aol.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 2.0pt; margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> But having that qualification will add to the credibility. <o:p></o:p> </blockquote> <div> Willem: That's not only the danger but the reality: too many technicians dependent on the "credibility" of the designation offering wholly uninformed and unformed opinions about the value of pianos. Every time a technician suggests, estimates, guesses, opines, or offers an appraisal of value, he/she has altered the values of all other pianos in the market place, sometimes subtly, sometimes not. Then also, the uneducated credibility of the piano-owning public who will be led to expect that the RPT designation by itself "should" signify capability, experience, and assurance. then also, the credibility of the legal system which will come to depend on the RPT designation while the above flaws in the ointment continue to be perpetuated. If after some rather extended experience in the field, and with an ear to the market, someone also has RPT status, then I guess that means something; but for the life of me I don't know what it is. As we kn! ow, many new RPT's are dangerous to the field piano technology since many of them mistakenly believe that the designation is the end rather than the beginning. While I certainly applaud those who seek and attain RPT status, its significance is primarily internal, that we, by social contract in our association, wish to provably raise the level of our techinical expertise by taking examinations which, as we all know, at 80% are marginal at best. It is perfectly conceivable and, indeed, has been done, to create an RPT within as little as 15 months from a point of total ignorance about piano technology. The RPT designation does not create an appraiser. Or lend credibility to the appraisal, except to the credulous. And we as members of the Piano Technicians Guild need to be extraordinarily circumspect in making the designation carry too much peripheral force or cachet. It will redound poorly on us if we do. Paul<o:p></o:p> </div> -----Original Message----- From: Willem Blees <<a href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">wimblees@aol.com</a>> To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><o:p></o:p> <div> Sent: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 8:51 pm Subject: Re: Appraising follow up<o:p></o:p> <div> <div> I'm not suggesting that just being an RPT is enough to be a qualified appraiser. But having that qualification will add to the credibility. By the same token, an RPT isn't necessarily qualified to be a concert tuner, but it certainly goes a long way. Which is one of the reasons many universities want an RPT to be the tech. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Honolulu</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">HI</st1:State></st1:place> Author of The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press <a href="http://www.pianotuning.com" target="_blank">www.pianotuning.com</a><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com">paulrevenkojones@aol.com</a> To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Sent: Sun, Oct 21 1:15 AM Subject: Re: Appraising follow up<o:p></o:p> <div> <div> Willem: With all due respect, the designation of RPT is not sufficient to be an appraiser except for, perhaps, some technical purpose regarding qualifications in the eyes of the legal system which may be all you're saying, but if so, then it in insufficient and non-germane to the issue. There are many, many young RPTs, whom I just love to death for becoming so, who are not qualified to appraise because they simply haven't had the experience in the "market-place", nor of the intricacies of the law and tax consequences, properly to bring to bear the results of that experience. Julia herself admits as much, that she's been doing technical work for several years, but does not claim to be an appraiser. To hold out the carrot to aspiring RPT's that they will, simply by becoming RPT's, have the qualification to appraise is nonsense. There are many non-RPT's out there who have years and years of experience whom I would call on in an instant before I would call someone to do an appraisal sim! ! ply because they have the designation after their name and the other doesn't. So, no, not enough said. Paul<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> -----Original Message----- From: Willem Blees <<a href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">wimblees@aol.com</a>> To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:23 pm Subject: Appraising follow up<o:p></o:p> <div> <div> I just got my October Journal, and read the appraising article. A couple of weeks ago there was some talk about this, but since the series of questions appeared on Pianotech before I joined, I didn't get a chance to add my 2 cents worth. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The only thing I wanted to add, which I mentioned in my Appraisal class at the convention, has to do with the qualifications of a piano appraiser. The number one qualification, in opinion, would be an RPT member of the PTG. There is no other classification in any other profession that comes close to knowing more about the condition of a piano than an RPT. The IRS, much less a court of law, has no other standard to measure our ability against. I'm not saying there aren't other people who can do an appraisal, but an RPT is the only one with credentials. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 'noug said. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Honolulu</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">HI</st1:State></st1:place> Author of The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press <a href="http://www.pianotuning.com/" target="_blank">www.pianotuning.com</a><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div style='margin-top:7.5pt'> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> </div> Email and AIM finally together. 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